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Peter Thiel on the Dangers of Progress
- feet 4y agoThe problem is that capitalism optimizes for profit, not progress.
- goatlover 4y agoWhat economic system optimizes for progress, and how do you define that?
- feet 4y agoSocialism optimizes for progress due to its structure. It allows people to earn according to the value they provide while not sucking excess amounts of resources out of the system. The truly democratic decision making process of socialism, where all workers have stake and a vote, provides a greater degree of progress because the needs of many are put before the needs of the few capital owners PS: If you earn wages by working for someone, you are a worker no matter how much you earn Technological progress is generally what I'm referring to
- catchnear4321 4y agoMost humans with power like to keep it, or even grow it. Profit is just a form of power. The masses arguing over which form of control they are under is the best of the lot is more than acceptable to those in power. Progress and power do not seem to typically go hand in hand. Lots of “progress,” very little progress.
- feet 4y agoThat's why its in the best interest of workers for us to work together and unionize to try and even out the power balance. Those in power don't like that which is why we hear so much about union busting... Again. At least this time the unionizers aren't getting slaughtered by cops I guess?
- catchnear4321 4y agoIf it is allowed by the powerful it is at best a concession, at worst a means of control in disguise. There is no evening out the power balance. Going at it like that is committing to a never-ending battle for slightly better. It would still be the commoners banding together to feel less pain from the powerful. But that’s all. Less pain. Why tolerate any pain handed from one class to a “lower” one? Unions are treating a symptom.
- feet 4y agoWhat is the root cause? From my perspective the root cause is capitalism itself
- catchnear4321 4y agoThis is so much older and broader than capitalism. It is older than currency. Just more informally at that point, but maybe more explicitly. So long as you’ve picked an ism to fight, the powerful get to sleep at night.
- feet 4y agoSo what is it
- catchnear4321 4y agoJust answered essentially the same question here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32216298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32216298
- feet 4y agoI think we do agree, but we need a solution to the problem. The idea behind socialism is the acceptance that there are some people who are greedy and will go after power, but that we don't reward that greed. The capitalistic system that we have currently set up specifically does reward greed, changing the system would mitigate that. We can't rely on individuals to just not be greedy assholes which is why we should set up a system that prevents those type of people from controlling things. Socialism is true democracy in that the majority generally has the power instead of the few greedy people. We currently incentivize greed, changing this would mitigate many of the issues.
- fithisux 4y agoThe problem is that capitalism is the way the vast majority perceives the world. Progress is just another club for the prehistorical hi-tech person.
- feet 4y agoThe reason that most of the world views it that way is literally because of american propaganda Think tanks spread that bs Capitalism was good for its time, it came after feudalism and allowed more freedoms and progress. After the industrial revolution we can now produce such an insane excess of goods yet all of that productivity is captured by a few capital owners instead of being spread out to benefit the workers that produce the goods
- thundergolfer 4y agoThis from John Ganz is a rejoinder to this piece: https://johnganz.substack.com/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel https://johnganz.substack.com/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel. Jon makes a narrow argument, but it’s persuasive to me. I’ve said before that Thiel is the most interesting billionaire, but his high-minded thinking is right now cashing out in the campaigns of two low-brow, bog-standard Trumpist senate candidates: Masters and Vance.