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It worked in Germany. Peak rush hour traffic is down everywhere. Plus the German trains, trams and subways don't smell like urine, or make horrible screeching n

It worked in Germany. Peak rush hour traffic is down everywhere. Plus the German trains, trams and subways don't smell like urine, or make horrible screeching noises like BART.

pelasaco 4y ago
It didn't work in Germany. You have the impression that it worked because people are in holidays [1]. The trains are mostly overcrowded, partially working and the work force is burned out[2]. TL;DR: "The Transport Ministry is providing €2.5 billion over three months to compensate for the loss of revenue caused by the artificially low ticket price — and yet no money was made available for extra personnel, buses or trains." With that in mind, he does not see how the scheme can feasibly continue after August. At least not at €9 per ticket." References: [1] https://berlinspectator.com/2022/07/02/germany-summer-vacations-to-start-with-major-chaos-at-airports/ https://berlinspectator.com/2022/07/02/germany-summer-vacati... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-9-euro-travel-ticket-success-or-failure/a-62329405 https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-9-euro-travel-ticket-success-...
- kstenerud 4y ago
  So they learned on their first iteration how to do it better. Honestly, it's like everyone is desperately searching for that dark cloud of desapair... Point is, it reduced automobile use by a significant amount because people do prefer to use the train when the price is right. Which means that with appropriate subsidies you can seriously improve the existing transport infrastructure. 10B a year is a pittance compared to the good it would do - Especially with the looming energy crunch.
  - pelasaco 4y ago
    No they didn't learn about the iteration. Actually they learned, that the populism cannot be sustained (the plan should be named 90 euro ticket 1 euro/day, but for populism they "removed one zero"), again, they borrowed our money to be able to follow a populist agenda, but the Federal government said already that they won't be able to keep up with that: with a ridiculous excuse: "It is not a federal issue, but the federal states are responsible for that" https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/nachfolgemodell-neun-euro-ticket-103.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/nachfolgemodell-neun-euro-t... The results until now: 3/4 of the people still driving their cars: https://www.focus.de/auto/news/ergebnis-ueberrascht-umfrage-so-viele-autofahrer-steigen-wegen-9-euro-ticket-auf-bus-und-bahn-um_id_107940619.html https://www.focus.de/auto/news/ergebnis-ueberrascht-umfrage-.... So 2.5 billion euros (actually much more, see https://www.stern.de/panorama/-9-euro-ticket-macht-krank----sorge-ueber-zustand-der-deutschen-bahn-32548908.html https://www.stern.de/panorama/-9-euro-ticket-macht-krank----...) is the most expensive "almost free" train ticket in the world...
    - kstenerud 4y ago
      Alright, I can see that you have an axe to grind, so I'll bow out now.
    - Sebb767 4y ago
      A (conservative) 25% reduction in car usage for a neglegible fraction of the GDP sounds like a great deal, actually.
pelasaco 4y ago
it just shows that you aren't taking regional trains now. Regional trains are smelling like urine or sh*t in this summer. https://www.infranken.de/ueberregional/deutschland/kein-wc-kein-personal-frau-macht-sich-in-regionalbahn-in-die-hose-art-5493257 https://www.infranken.de/ueberregional/deutschland/kein-wc-k... https://www.berliner-kurier.de/panorama/der-blanke-9-euro-ticket-horror-keine-offene-toilette-im-zug-frau-macht-sich-in-die-hose-li.243393 https://www.berliner-kurier.de/panorama/der-blanke-9-euro-ti... https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/auto-verkehr/9-euro-ticket-deutsche-bahn-haelt-belastung-nicht-stand-18178278.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/auto-verkehr/9-euro-t...
- _Microft 4y ago
  Anecdote: I use the free (9€ is close enough to „free“) trains every week since the ticket was introduced two month ago. The trains are more crowded than before but I never experienced anything like the problems you mentioned.
  - pelasaco 4y ago
    Important to note: I'm not just mentioning: I'm linking to the facts. You have them daily https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/bahn-zugausfaelle-krankenstand-neun-euro-ticket-100.html https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/bahn-zugausfaelle-krankensta..., in any media. 9€ for you, €2.5 billion+ for us. That's the most expensive "almost" free thing. I'm not against trains, I'm not against bikes. I'm against the government doing populism and burning our money like that.
    - _Microft 4y ago
      > I'm not just mentioning: I'm linking to the facts. Well, my experience is also fact. I use trains every week now, I have visited half a dozen cities with this ticket and used local public transportation there. It's crowded but otherwise fine. Just because these experiences aren't reported on the news does not make them less real. > 9€ for you, €2.5 billion+ for us. "us" does a lot of lifting here because "us" is literally millions of people (including I). This statement also compares costs of a ticket for a single month with the total subsidization over three months. > I'm against the government doing populism and burning our money like that. I think we have to agree to disagree here. I think it is money spent well.

It worked in Germany. Peak rush hour traffic is down everywhere. Plus the German trains, trams and subways don't smell like urine, or make horrible screeching noises like BART.

pelasaco 4y ago

It didn't work in Germany. You have the impression that it worked because people are in holidays [1]. The trains are mostly overcrowded, partially working and the work force is burned out[2]. TL;DR: "The Transport Ministry is providing €2.5 billion over three months to compensate for the loss of revenue caused by the artificially low ticket price — and yet no money was made available for extra personnel, buses or trains." With that in mind, he does not see how the scheme can feasibly continue after August. At least not at €9 per ticket." References: [1] https://berlinspectator.com/2022/07/02/germany-summer-vacations-to-start-with-major-chaos-at-airports/ https://berlinspectator.com/2022/07/02/germany-summer-vacati... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-9-euro-travel-ticket-success-or-failure/a-62329405 https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-9-euro-travel-ticket-success-...

kstenerud 4y ago
So they learned on their first iteration how to do it better. Honestly, it's like everyone is desperately searching for that dark cloud of desapair... Point is, it reduced automobile use by a significant amount because people do prefer to use the train when the price is right. Which means that with appropriate subsidies you can seriously improve the existing transport infrastructure. 10B a year is a pittance compared to the good it would do - Especially with the looming energy crunch.
- pelasaco 4y ago
  No they didn't learn about the iteration. Actually they learned, that the populism cannot be sustained (the plan should be named 90 euro ticket 1 euro/day, but for populism they "removed one zero"), again, they borrowed our money to be able to follow a populist agenda, but the Federal government said already that they won't be able to keep up with that: with a ridiculous excuse: "It is not a federal issue, but the federal states are responsible for that" https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/nachfolgemodell-neun-euro-ticket-103.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/nachfolgemodell-neun-euro-t... The results until now: 3/4 of the people still driving their cars: https://www.focus.de/auto/news/ergebnis-ueberrascht-umfrage-so-viele-autofahrer-steigen-wegen-9-euro-ticket-auf-bus-und-bahn-um_id_107940619.html https://www.focus.de/auto/news/ergebnis-ueberrascht-umfrage-.... So 2.5 billion euros (actually much more, see https://www.stern.de/panorama/-9-euro-ticket-macht-krank----sorge-ueber-zustand-der-deutschen-bahn-32548908.html https://www.stern.de/panorama/-9-euro-ticket-macht-krank----...) is the most expensive "almost free" train ticket in the world...
  - kstenerud 4y ago
    Alright, I can see that you have an axe to grind, so I'll bow out now.
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    A (conservative) 25% reduction in car usage for a neglegible fraction of the GDP sounds like a great deal, actually.

pelasaco 4y ago

it just shows that you aren't taking regional trains now. Regional trains are smelling like urine or sh*t in this summer. https://www.infranken.de/ueberregional/deutschland/kein-wc-kein-personal-frau-macht-sich-in-regionalbahn-in-die-hose-art-5493257 https://www.infranken.de/ueberregional/deutschland/kein-wc-k... https://www.berliner-kurier.de/panorama/der-blanke-9-euro-ticket-horror-keine-offene-toilette-im-zug-frau-macht-sich-in-die-hose-li.243393 https://www.berliner-kurier.de/panorama/der-blanke-9-euro-ti... https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/auto-verkehr/9-euro-ticket-deutsche-bahn-haelt-belastung-nicht-stand-18178278.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/auto-verkehr/9-euro-t...

_Microft 4y ago
Anecdote: I use the free (9€ is close enough to „free“) trains every week since the ticket was introduced two month ago. The trains are more crowded than before but I never experienced anything like the problems you mentioned.
- pelasaco 4y ago
  Important to note: I'm not just mentioning: I'm linking to the facts. You have them daily https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/bahn-zugausfaelle-krankenstand-neun-euro-ticket-100.html https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/bahn-zugausfaelle-krankensta..., in any media. 9€ for you, €2.5 billion+ for us. That's the most expensive "almost" free thing. I'm not against trains, I'm not against bikes. I'm against the government doing populism and burning our money like that.
  - _Microft 4y ago
    > I'm not just mentioning: I'm linking to the facts. Well, my experience is also fact. I use trains every week now, I have visited half a dozen cities with this ticket and used local public transportation there. It's crowded but otherwise fine. Just because these experiences aren't reported on the news does not make them less real. > 9€ for you, €2.5 billion+ for us. "us" does a lot of lifting here because "us" is literally millions of people (including I). This statement also compares costs of a ticket for a single month with the total subsidization over three months. > I'm against the government doing populism and burning our money like that. I think we have to agree to disagree here. I think it is money spent well.