3 ms·

One has to wonder why the hell they'd make a chess robot with a grip so strong that it takes the concerted effort of two adults to pry it loose. And blaming it

One has to wonder why the hell they'd make a chess robot with a grip so strong that it takes the concerted effort of two adults to pry it loose. And blaming it on the kid was real classy.

Nextgrid 4y ago
The robot is a standard industrial robot arm that happens to be used for chess - it it was not made to be a chess robot. This is absolutely overkill for chess even just from a cost perspective so you wouldn't build something like this if you actually were building a chess robot. The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans. There might be a way to vary the level of force applied but it may have been abstracted away (maybe you need to go one level lower to get that level of control) by a simpler API for applications where a "default" level of pressure is acceptable.
- kstenerud 4y ago
  Which leads to the next question: WHY is such a dangerous robot being used to play chess against people?
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Most likely because they got it for cheap/free and someone had some fun programming it without ever thinking about the dangers - presumably they never actually observed just how much force this thing could produce.
    - kstenerud 4y ago
      From the article: "We rented the robot, it used to be with experts in many places for a long time. Apparently the operators overlooked that."
    - hinkley 4y ago
      “It was cheaper” is how Chernobyl nearly permanently destroyed the water supply of all of eastern and parts of Central Europe.
      - concordDance 4y ago
        Every part of that reply is wrong.
        hinkley 4y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32210234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32210234 As for the Chernobyl comment, if they had not dug under the elephant’s foot before it started to cut into the subsoil, that’s exactly what would have happened when it hit the water table. People risked a lot to keep that from happening.
  - numpad0 4y ago
    Human-safe “collaborative robot” types are like iMac with VESA mounts, they’re niche product not readily and cheaply available.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    Oh come on, we do this since we could do it: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/robot-arm-developed-by-japanese-auto-parts-maker-denso-and-news-photo/479985779 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/robot-arm-deve...
- antoniuschan99 4y ago
  I have a robot arm (Dobot MG400), it has a has a force sensitivity setting (5 levels) that stops when a collision happens. There's also an e-stop that you can hit that will stop the robot.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Out of curiosity, what do you use it for? I'd love to play around with one but I can't think of many use-cases beyond showing it off to guests.
    - pjot 4y ago
      “Y’all want to see my robot arm?” seems like a great way to kick off a conversation!
    - DaiPlusPlus 4y ago
      If I had a robotic arm at home, I'd use it for making cocktails.
    - notpachet 4y ago
      I really hope the answer is "robot chess"
    - antoniuschan99 4y ago
      It’s to move pcbs for firmware uploading and testing. I built the jig for firmware uploading and testing last year. Had to place the pcb on the jig manually and wait (~2 minutes) for the process to complete. I’m building the robot cell this year which will do a batch of ~15 pcbs at a time. I update often on Social Media! http://www.instagram.com/kokonautinc http://www.instagram.com/kokonautinc MG400 is really affordable, Dobot also has a smaller educational/tinker version called the Magician (lots of other ones: uArm, mycobot/mypalletizer, mirobot, etc). A step above the MG400, price wise, would be an Epson Scara or a 6-dof Yaskawa MotoMini. Lots of Scara Robots in the 5-20k price range. 6-dof like UR3 or Motoman Mini are like 20-50k. Ebay has a bunch of used ones that are much cheaper too!
- seltzered_ 4y ago
  Beyond pressure settings, you can also design the robot to just be 'soft' in the first place: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_robotics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_robotics
  - hinkley 4y ago
    I am Baymax. On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your pain?
- blippage 4y ago
  "The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans." it's interesting to watch some of the Boston Robotics videos. They're mostly supposed to be entertaining, but even then, it's clear that they've thought about safety. In one, they're dancing, but the dance area is surrounded by observation walls. In another one, a guy tests a robot's sense of balance and ability to react to unexpected events. He uses a broom stick to push the robot to try to unbalance it, and a hockey stick to knock a box away from the robot as it was about to pick it up. In other words, you just don't go right up to the robot and do what you want, you maintain distance in case the robot does something unexpected. I presume they have some kind of kill switch, too, in case the whole experiment goes tits up. That whole robot chess stunt seems pretty dumbass in retrospect, but instead of learning the lesson that industrial robots are potentially dangerous they go and blame the boy. So, lesson very much not learned in this instance.
rtkwe 4y ago
The force required to open isn't necessarily directly related to the force being applied to the hand. The default for motors on robotic arms are braking when not being driven so the arm doesn't flop around or get back driven so the force needed to reopen them can exceed the force being applied while closing.

One has to wonder why the hell they'd make a chess robot with a grip so strong that it takes the concerted effort of two adults to pry it loose. And blaming it on the kid was real classy.

Nextgrid 4y ago

The robot is a standard industrial robot arm that happens to be used for chess - it it was not made to be a chess robot. This is absolutely overkill for chess even just from a cost perspective so you wouldn't build something like this if you actually were building a chess robot. The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans. There might be a way to vary the level of force applied but it may have been abstracted away (maybe you need to go one level lower to get that level of control) by a simpler API for applications where a "default" level of pressure is acceptable.

kstenerud 4y ago
Which leads to the next question: WHY is such a dangerous robot being used to play chess against people?
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Most likely because they got it for cheap/free and someone had some fun programming it without ever thinking about the dangers - presumably they never actually observed just how much force this thing could produce.
  - kstenerud 4y ago
    From the article: "We rented the robot, it used to be with experts in many places for a long time. Apparently the operators overlooked that."
  - hinkley 4y ago
    “It was cheaper” is how Chernobyl nearly permanently destroyed the water supply of all of eastern and parts of Central Europe.
    - concordDance 4y ago
      Every part of that reply is wrong.
      - hinkley 4y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32210234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32210234 As for the Chernobyl comment, if they had not dug under the elephant’s foot before it started to cut into the subsoil, that’s exactly what would have happened when it hit the water table. People risked a lot to keep that from happening.
- numpad0 4y ago
  Human-safe “collaborative robot” types are like iMac with VESA mounts, they’re niche product not readily and cheaply available.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  Oh come on, we do this since we could do it: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/robot-arm-developed-by-japanese-auto-parts-maker-denso-and-news-photo/479985779 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/robot-arm-deve...
antoniuschan99 4y ago
I have a robot arm (Dobot MG400), it has a has a force sensitivity setting (5 levels) that stops when a collision happens. There's also an e-stop that you can hit that will stop the robot.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, what do you use it for? I'd love to play around with one but I can't think of many use-cases beyond showing it off to guests.
  - pjot 4y ago
    “Y’all want to see my robot arm?” seems like a great way to kick off a conversation!
  - DaiPlusPlus 4y ago
    If I had a robotic arm at home, I'd use it for making cocktails.
  - notpachet 4y ago
    I really hope the answer is "robot chess"
  - antoniuschan99 4y ago
    It’s to move pcbs for firmware uploading and testing. I built the jig for firmware uploading and testing last year. Had to place the pcb on the jig manually and wait (~2 minutes) for the process to complete. I’m building the robot cell this year which will do a batch of ~15 pcbs at a time. I update often on Social Media! http://www.instagram.com/kokonautinc http://www.instagram.com/kokonautinc MG400 is really affordable, Dobot also has a smaller educational/tinker version called the Magician (lots of other ones: uArm, mycobot/mypalletizer, mirobot, etc). A step above the MG400, price wise, would be an Epson Scara or a 6-dof Yaskawa MotoMini. Lots of Scara Robots in the 5-20k price range. 6-dof like UR3 or Motoman Mini are like 20-50k. Ebay has a bunch of used ones that are much cheaper too!
seltzered_ 4y ago
Beyond pressure settings, you can also design the robot to just be 'soft' in the first place: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_robotics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_robotics
- hinkley 4y ago
  I am Baymax. On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your pain?
blippage 4y ago
"The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans." it's interesting to watch some of the Boston Robotics videos. They're mostly supposed to be entertaining, but even then, it's clear that they've thought about safety. In one, they're dancing, but the dance area is surrounded by observation walls. In another one, a guy tests a robot's sense of balance and ability to react to unexpected events. He uses a broom stick to push the robot to try to unbalance it, and a hockey stick to knock a box away from the robot as it was about to pick it up. In other words, you just don't go right up to the robot and do what you want, you maintain distance in case the robot does something unexpected. I presume they have some kind of kill switch, too, in case the whole experiment goes tits up. That whole robot chess stunt seems pretty dumbass in retrospect, but instead of learning the lesson that industrial robots are potentially dangerous they go and blame the boy. So, lesson very much not learned in this instance.

rtkwe 4y ago

The force required to open isn't necessarily directly related to the force being applied to the hand. The default for motors on robotic arms are braking when not being driven so the arm doesn't flop around or get back driven so the force needed to reopen them can exceed the force being applied while closing.