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The problem is energy companies and the entrenched family assholes that run them. Three Mile Island was being forced to push ahead and use the crane to move the

The problem is energy companies and the entrenched family assholes that run them. Three Mile Island was being forced to push ahead and use the crane to move the vessel, even though it WAS damaged and would have likely lead to a meltdown. Engineers knew it wasn't safe and were punished and fired for not using the crane unless it was actually checked and in working order. The public is right to be wary of nuclear when these are the types of assholes that put all our lives in danger.

socialdemocrat 4y ago
If I could upvote this a hundred times. It is easy to mock the public for not getting nuclear power and being paranoid. People today have really forgotten how much people got lied to constantly about nuclear power. France which they like to pull out as this amazing nuclear country built all the reactors they hype up by faking safety checks on nuclear reactors. It is just really naive to assume every nuclear plant is run by the books. People complain about over regulation of the nuclear industry. Yeah… they kind of brought that upon themselves.
- mlsu 4y ago
  If you're surprised by the lack of paperwork in fission reactors, just wait till you see (or... not!) the documentation on coal and ng powerplants!
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    Actually in several instances nuclear operators have managed to reduce regulations compared to coal and NG.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Coal and NG are, like fission, on their way out.
    - bsagdiyev 4y ago
      You argue this a lot on HN but real world shows the opposite happening.
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        How many coal plants are scheduled for construction, this decade? The only place I have heard of plans to build literally any coal plants at all is in China, but they have not broken ground on them. China also says it will build hundreds of nukes, but has started only a few. It is building out solar and wind farms like nobody's business. China is always happy to cancel plans for what they turn out not to need. They even abandon things they spent big money on that turn out redundant: lately, a record-setting bridge you can read about. We read about coal plants being shut down and scrapped, everywhere. The only place where coal plants are brought back online is in Europe in response to a regional crisis involving a war. Are you sure you want to stake claims about long-term policy based on emergency response to a war? That seems like a very courageous position to take.
thrown_22 4y ago
And how is it better when those assholes kill tens of thousands with coal every year instead? If we lynched a few of them every time a nuclear reactor blew up we'd have a lot fewer energy related deaths and the market would eventually self correct.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Coal is on its way out. It is now cheaper to build a new solar farm to replace a coal plant than just to operate the already built coal plant. It is as cheap to build renewables as to operate an already built and paid for nuke. Renewables cost is still in free fall. In ten years, renewables will be so cheap that overbuilding 10x, 20x, will be cheaper than operating a nuke.
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    Ok, we replaced a coal plant with solar panels. What do we do at night? Build storage for the solar plant? That's more expensive than a nuclear plant of the same capacity. Build long range high voltage power lines? Again, more expensive than building a nuclear power plant of the same capacity. People have been spoiled by the incredible energy ROI, portability and responsiveness of fossil fuels and think everything has the same capacity. It doesn't.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Storage is cheap and getting cheaper even faster than solar or wind. By the time we need storage (after enough renewable generation is built to charge it from) storage will be very cheap. It will not be made of lithium batteries.
      - thrown_22 4y ago
        By the time storage is ready we won't need electricity because climate change will have made industrial civilization impossible.
iforgotpassword 4y ago
Exactly. People here on HN unsurprisingly approach nuclear with this naive enthusiasm that's operating under the assumption of a spherical cow in vacuum. In reality the nuclear lobby heavily got politics to relax safety requirements, operators are corrupt and cut costs at every corner, inspections are not performed at all or not thoroughly, and when important decisions are being made, like where to store the waste, it's where politicians in charge find it convenient, and not where scientists and engineers actually recommend. Then you end up with metal containers in a salt mine, rusting away because thirty years ago who could have known the connection between salt and oxidation.

socialdemocrat 4y ago

If I could upvote this a hundred times. It is easy to mock the public for not getting nuclear power and being paranoid. People today have really forgotten how much people got lied to constantly about nuclear power. France which they like to pull out as this amazing nuclear country built all the reactors they hype up by faking safety checks on nuclear reactors. It is just really naive to assume every nuclear plant is run by the books. People complain about over regulation of the nuclear industry. Yeah… they kind of brought that upon themselves.

mlsu 4y ago
If you're surprised by the lack of paperwork in fission reactors, just wait till you see (or... not!) the documentation on coal and ng powerplants!
- cycomanic 4y ago
  Actually in several instances nuclear operators have managed to reduce regulations compared to coal and NG.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Coal and NG are, like fission, on their way out.
  - bsagdiyev 4y ago
    You argue this a lot on HN but real world shows the opposite happening.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      How many coal plants are scheduled for construction, this decade? The only place I have heard of plans to build literally any coal plants at all is in China, but they have not broken ground on them. China also says it will build hundreds of nukes, but has started only a few. It is building out solar and wind farms like nobody's business. China is always happy to cancel plans for what they turn out not to need. They even abandon things they spent big money on that turn out redundant: lately, a record-setting bridge you can read about. We read about coal plants being shut down and scrapped, everywhere. The only place where coal plants are brought back online is in Europe in response to a regional crisis involving a war. Are you sure you want to stake claims about long-term policy based on emergency response to a war? That seems like a very courageous position to take.

thrown_22 4y ago

And how is it better when those assholes kill tens of thousands with coal every year instead? If we lynched a few of them every time a nuclear reactor blew up we'd have a lot fewer energy related deaths and the market would eventually self correct.

ncmncm 4y ago
Coal is on its way out. It is now cheaper to build a new solar farm to replace a coal plant than just to operate the already built coal plant. It is as cheap to build renewables as to operate an already built and paid for nuke. Renewables cost is still in free fall. In ten years, renewables will be so cheap that overbuilding 10x, 20x, will be cheaper than operating a nuke.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  Ok, we replaced a coal plant with solar panels. What do we do at night? Build storage for the solar plant? That's more expensive than a nuclear plant of the same capacity. Build long range high voltage power lines? Again, more expensive than building a nuclear power plant of the same capacity. People have been spoiled by the incredible energy ROI, portability and responsiveness of fossil fuels and think everything has the same capacity. It doesn't.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Storage is cheap and getting cheaper even faster than solar or wind. By the time we need storage (after enough renewable generation is built to charge it from) storage will be very cheap. It will not be made of lithium batteries.
    - thrown_22 4y ago
      By the time storage is ready we won't need electricity because climate change will have made industrial civilization impossible.

iforgotpassword 4y ago

Exactly. People here on HN unsurprisingly approach nuclear with this naive enthusiasm that's operating under the assumption of a spherical cow in vacuum. In reality the nuclear lobby heavily got politics to relax safety requirements, operators are corrupt and cut costs at every corner, inspections are not performed at all or not thoroughly, and when important decisions are being made, like where to store the waste, it's where politicians in charge find it convenient, and not where scientists and engineers actually recommend. Then you end up with metal containers in a salt mine, rusting away because thirty years ago who could have known the connection between salt and oxidation.