11 ms·

"The results suggest that, in the short term, NSS use may lead to small reductions in adiposity without any significant impact on cardiometabolic risk. There i

"The results suggest that, in the short term, NSS use may lead to small reductions in adiposity without any significant impact on cardiometabolic risk. There is suggestion of negative health effects with long-term use, but the evidence is ultimately inconclusive." I won't be getting rid of my Coke Zero any time soon.

BbzzbB 4y ago
What a blessed day! I'll take those odds as well.. not that I haven't so far either way.
adhesive_wombat 4y ago
I just wish they'd also avoided the phosphoric acid in it! Might not be full of sugar, but it's still bad for teeth.
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  On the same topic, recently learned that erythritol (Swerve) does not contribute at all the plaque as normal sugar/other substitutes do.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Not nursing the drink forever and rinsing your mouth afterwards with water should return the pH to normal relatively quickly, according to my dentist.
  - dannyw 4y ago
    Also, chew some xylitol gum after, or just regularly. Straws also help. Get reusable metal ones.
- xattt 4y ago
  The local Pepsi bottler has been distributing Crystal Pepsi (!) in our market the last few weeks. I thought I would have never seen the day. I would be drinking it more regularly to avoid caramel colour (possible link to microvascular damage that leads to increased likelihood for atherosclerosis, no citation at hand), but also to be ironic.
  - manholio 4y ago
    It's a limited revival, enjoy it while stocks lasts. Or, perhaps, build inventory. But do they have the Max sugar free version in Crystal?
    - xattt 4y ago
      Unfortunately not. I am wondering if the artificial sweetener scene was different in the 1990s versus now. I think we have sucralose and stevia now that we didn’t have before.
- daneel_w 4y ago
  From what I've understood, the phosphoric acid is also a problem for the gut flora. With regular daily intake it will apparently kill certain bacterial cultures over time, and with that comes a set of new problems.
  - refurb 4y ago
    Unlikely. Phosphate is ubiquitous in the body. Your metabolism basically runs off phosphate ions. And your stomach is far more acidic than phosphoric acid.
    - feet 4y ago
      If phosphate ions are present in abnormally high concentrations, could that cause issues for some species of bacteria? AFAIK our phosphate is usually contained within our cells, and I'm definitely not an expert on the digestive process so I'm not sure how phosphate gets absorbed, at what rate, or if any enzymes would mess with it
      - refurb 4y ago
        Phosphate is present in every cell of your body and in extracellular fluid. Your kidneys keep phosphate levels within a very narrow range.
        feet 4y ago
        Right, so what happens if the concentration is too high in the intestines? What is the absorption rate compared to the concentration in coke zero? Would it take slamming 6 coke zeros in a row on an empty stomach to hit concentrations that would be bad for the previously mentioned species?
        refurb 4y ago
        It won't be too high by the time it hits your intestines. It'll be absorbed and excreted in the urine.
nathanaldensr 4y ago
If my wife's caffeine withdrawal is any indication, you might want to be more concerned about your amount of caffeine intake rather than the sweeteners.
- na85 4y ago
  I just go cold turkey every few months when my caffeine tolerance gets out of hand.
  - sundvor 4y ago
    Two decades ago in response to colleagues' worry that I was drinking too much caffeine I quit for a year. All sources of caffeine; espressos, energy drinks, diet cokes. I didn't suffer any withdrawals. However I greatly missed my coffee, so after the year I resumed (sans the energy drinks) and will be having my coffee until the day I die. Quit alcohol nearly two years ago; that's a habit that can stay gone. Definitely feeling the benefits of ditching even what was a relatively modest consumption. In a way, diet cokes (Coca Cola No Sugar) are my naughty drinks now - so I can see from this study I should probably limit it somewhat day in-out, and as long as I do it should be ok. I primarily drink filtered water and filtered Sodastream water for my fluids.
- verall 4y ago
  Unless you're drinking like 6 a day it's nothing compared to regular coffee drinkers: 12oz coke zero: 34mg caffeine 12oz brewed coffee: 120-240mg depending on beans and strength Double shot espresso: 60-180mg I can easily do 2 12oz brewed or doubles in a day and friends drink much more.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    OK, but that's like saying there's no reason to watch your alcohol intake unless it's on par with a raging alcoholic.
    - vkou 4y ago
beached_whale 4y ago
Lets add that some of these are really old food additives * 1965/1983 - Aspartame * 1976/1991 - Sucralose * 1879/1884ish - 1960s - Saccharin
- mountain_peak 4y ago
  I've been reading some old (early 1900s) diabetic recipe books from archive.org and it was a bit of a surprise to see how many recipes used saccharin back then (and almond flour, bone broth, etc.). I remember seeing saccharin tablets everywhere as a youngster, then they all suddenly went away. As it turns out, researchers found a higher incidence of bladder cancer in rats fed a diet of saccharin (20x the expected human dose, I think), which caused the production of saccharin to drop off dramatically. Up until that point, it was cheap, relatively easy to produce and plentiful. Further research eventually proved that saccharin reacted with a compound in rat urine that caused crystals to form in the urine, which 'scraped' the bladder wall, causing injury, increased cell repair, and (therefore) an increased incidence of bladder cancer in rats. The researchers proved that this compound did not exist in human urine and crystals did not form, therefore the increased incidence of cancer should not exist in humans - and analysis of bladder cancer rates for lifelong saccharin users backed-up the new findings. Still, the damage to saccharin had been done and I think there's only one plant in Europe that still produces it. I'm not sure how large the artificial sweetener market is (it seems to be growing exponentially), but every decade an old sweetener appears to fall out of favour and is replaced by a new one (or is added in combination with others). I'm not sure we're much further ahead than we were in the early 1900s!
  - TheDudeMan 4y ago
    This is so frustrating. Because you know this is the tip of the iceberg.
    - seventytwo 4y ago
      Nah… this stuff happens, unfortunately. There’s no need to blast off into conspiracy space.
ralusek 4y ago
Drink water
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ramraj07 4y ago
If you drink a can every two days, great. If you get a personalized gallon sized mug with a straw filled with diet soda every day to work and are also already morbidly obese, maybe the drink won’t help. The second statement I’ve seen so many times in Texas :(
- honkdaddy 4y ago
  Very true. But if they’re morbidly obese as it is, it’s pretty likely they have a brain chemistry which responds very positively to sugary drinks, so without the diet soda it’s possible their health would be even worse. I’ve never met an obese person who liked being obese, but I’ve met lots who have a really challenging relationship with food which slowly brought them to the point they’re at now. I’m an addict as well, it’s just not as visible.
  - PcChip 4y ago
    >they have a brain chemistry which responds very positively to sugary drinks I'm convinced this can be changed! I used to love sugary drinks, however after being on keto my brain adjusted and now if I even taste a real coke I'm disgusted by how sweet it is
    - bcrosby95 4y ago
      What works for you doesn't work everyone. My wife did keto and still loved her soda afterwards.
      - ihateolives 4y ago
        That's not keto then.
        giaour 4y ago
        No true Scotsman could like soda after doing keto!
29athrowaway 4y ago
If I may suggest... you should try to get into tea. There are teas for all tastes including fermented tea, and related beverages like yerba mate, guarana, etc.
- hirvi74 4y ago
  Yerba mate puts me in the best mood. I have no idea why. Maybe the MOAIs?
Gigachad 4y ago
Also my conclusion. Aspartame and other sweeteners have been researched to death now and they still can’t tell me they have found anything. While other chemicals in regular use have real and concrete health issues.
- mjevans 4y ago
  It is practically impossible to conduct a long term health study on something like an artificial sweetener. The only way I can think of to accurately remove environmental noise is to collect extensive records on a _large_ population, and then line up A / B sets where the only major difference between the sets (other exposures similar) are the sweeteners. With a lot of samples that fulfill that criteria a historic review might be able to identify statistical anomalies towards outcomes (positive or negative) that are common to the matched A and B sides of the set. I could see an AI administering such a data collection and comparison in an accurate and ethical way; but only the scifi grade strong / true AI.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    It's also impossible to do this on almost every other substance we use. I'll focus my energy on avoiding things we know for sure are problematic like refined sugar and get to artificial sweeteners when everything else more important is solved.
    - Teever 4y ago
      Why not just avoid both?
      - eropple 4y ago
        Because humans are not automatons and there is value in deriving pleasure from one's lived experiences? This isn't a difficult question.
        n_io 4y ago
bhk 4y ago
I don't think that's a balanced summary of the study. "Results from prospective cohort studies suggest the possibility of long-term harm in the form of increased risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases and mortality." And regarding the short-term weight loss, the confounding factor of reduction in sugar and overall energy intake seems to be the explanation. The "Concluding Remarks" section of the paper is a good, and very brief, encapsulation of the results.
ipaddr 4y ago
Your teeth will be affected. I spent a year drinking as much coke as I wanted. The teeth issues that resulted made me never drink the stuff again. If I could go back and tell my younger self one thing.. stay away from the coca cola.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
Yes I always figured if there is something, it's on the order of 10%-20% "bad outcome" vs being a sugar teetotalar. However since I avoid as much sugar as possible and have some splenda in my coffee and coke zero pretty much guilt free.

BbzzbB 4y ago

What a blessed day! I'll take those odds as well.. not that I haven't so far either way.

adhesive_wombat 4y ago

I just wish they'd also avoided the phosphoric acid in it! Might not be full of sugar, but it's still bad for teeth.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
On the same topic, recently learned that erythritol (Swerve) does not contribute at all the plaque as normal sugar/other substitutes do.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
Not nursing the drink forever and rinsing your mouth afterwards with water should return the pH to normal relatively quickly, according to my dentist.
- dannyw 4y ago
  Also, chew some xylitol gum after, or just regularly. Straws also help. Get reusable metal ones.
xattt 4y ago
The local Pepsi bottler has been distributing Crystal Pepsi (!) in our market the last few weeks. I thought I would have never seen the day. I would be drinking it more regularly to avoid caramel colour (possible link to microvascular damage that leads to increased likelihood for atherosclerosis, no citation at hand), but also to be ironic.
- manholio 4y ago
  It's a limited revival, enjoy it while stocks lasts. Or, perhaps, build inventory. But do they have the Max sugar free version in Crystal?
  - xattt 4y ago
    Unfortunately not. I am wondering if the artificial sweetener scene was different in the 1990s versus now. I think we have sucralose and stevia now that we didn’t have before.
daneel_w 4y ago
From what I've understood, the phosphoric acid is also a problem for the gut flora. With regular daily intake it will apparently kill certain bacterial cultures over time, and with that comes a set of new problems.
- refurb 4y ago
  Unlikely. Phosphate is ubiquitous in the body. Your metabolism basically runs off phosphate ions. And your stomach is far more acidic than phosphoric acid.
  - feet 4y ago
    If phosphate ions are present in abnormally high concentrations, could that cause issues for some species of bacteria? AFAIK our phosphate is usually contained within our cells, and I'm definitely not an expert on the digestive process so I'm not sure how phosphate gets absorbed, at what rate, or if any enzymes would mess with it
    - refurb 4y ago
      Phosphate is present in every cell of your body and in extracellular fluid. Your kidneys keep phosphate levels within a very narrow range.
      - feet 4y ago
        Right, so what happens if the concentration is too high in the intestines? What is the absorption rate compared to the concentration in coke zero? Would it take slamming 6 coke zeros in a row on an empty stomach to hit concentrations that would be bad for the previously mentioned species?
        refurb 4y ago
        It won't be too high by the time it hits your intestines. It'll be absorbed and excreted in the urine.

nathanaldensr 4y ago

If my wife's caffeine withdrawal is any indication, you might want to be more concerned about your amount of caffeine intake rather than the sweeteners.

na85 4y ago
I just go cold turkey every few months when my caffeine tolerance gets out of hand.
- sundvor 4y ago
  Two decades ago in response to colleagues' worry that I was drinking too much caffeine I quit for a year. All sources of caffeine; espressos, energy drinks, diet cokes. I didn't suffer any withdrawals. However I greatly missed my coffee, so after the year I resumed (sans the energy drinks) and will be having my coffee until the day I die. Quit alcohol nearly two years ago; that's a habit that can stay gone. Definitely feeling the benefits of ditching even what was a relatively modest consumption. In a way, diet cokes (Coca Cola No Sugar) are my naughty drinks now - so I can see from this study I should probably limit it somewhat day in-out, and as long as I do it should be ok. I primarily drink filtered water and filtered Sodastream water for my fluids.
verall 4y ago
Unless you're drinking like 6 a day it's nothing compared to regular coffee drinkers: 12oz coke zero: 34mg caffeine 12oz brewed coffee: 120-240mg depending on beans and strength Double shot espresso: 60-180mg I can easily do 2 12oz brewed or doubles in a day and friends drink much more.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  OK, but that's like saying there's no reason to watch your alcohol intake unless it's on par with a raging alcoholic.
  - vkou 4y ago

beached_whale 4y ago

Lets add that some of these are really old food additives * 1965/1983 - Aspartame * 1976/1991 - Sucralose * 1879/1884ish - 1960s - Saccharin

mountain_peak 4y ago
I've been reading some old (early 1900s) diabetic recipe books from archive.org and it was a bit of a surprise to see how many recipes used saccharin back then (and almond flour, bone broth, etc.). I remember seeing saccharin tablets everywhere as a youngster, then they all suddenly went away. As it turns out, researchers found a higher incidence of bladder cancer in rats fed a diet of saccharin (20x the expected human dose, I think), which caused the production of saccharin to drop off dramatically. Up until that point, it was cheap, relatively easy to produce and plentiful. Further research eventually proved that saccharin reacted with a compound in rat urine that caused crystals to form in the urine, which 'scraped' the bladder wall, causing injury, increased cell repair, and (therefore) an increased incidence of bladder cancer in rats. The researchers proved that this compound did not exist in human urine and crystals did not form, therefore the increased incidence of cancer should not exist in humans - and analysis of bladder cancer rates for lifelong saccharin users backed-up the new findings. Still, the damage to saccharin had been done and I think there's only one plant in Europe that still produces it. I'm not sure how large the artificial sweetener market is (it seems to be growing exponentially), but every decade an old sweetener appears to fall out of favour and is replaced by a new one (or is added in combination with others). I'm not sure we're much further ahead than we were in the early 1900s!
- TheDudeMan 4y ago
  This is so frustrating. Because you know this is the tip of the iceberg.
  - seventytwo 4y ago
    Nah… this stuff happens, unfortunately. There’s no need to blast off into conspiracy space.

ralusek 4y ago

Drink water

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

ramraj07 4y ago

If you drink a can every two days, great. If you get a personalized gallon sized mug with a straw filled with diet soda every day to work and are also already morbidly obese, maybe the drink won’t help. The second statement I’ve seen so many times in Texas :(

honkdaddy 4y ago
Very true. But if they’re morbidly obese as it is, it’s pretty likely they have a brain chemistry which responds very positively to sugary drinks, so without the diet soda it’s possible their health would be even worse. I’ve never met an obese person who liked being obese, but I’ve met lots who have a really challenging relationship with food which slowly brought them to the point they’re at now. I’m an addict as well, it’s just not as visible.
- PcChip 4y ago
  >they have a brain chemistry which responds very positively to sugary drinks I'm convinced this can be changed! I used to love sugary drinks, however after being on keto my brain adjusted and now if I even taste a real coke I'm disgusted by how sweet it is
  - bcrosby95 4y ago
    What works for you doesn't work everyone. My wife did keto and still loved her soda afterwards.
    - ihateolives 4y ago
      That's not keto then.
      - giaour 4y ago
        No true Scotsman could like soda after doing keto!

29athrowaway 4y ago

If I may suggest... you should try to get into tea. There are teas for all tastes including fermented tea, and related beverages like yerba mate, guarana, etc.

hirvi74 4y ago
Yerba mate puts me in the best mood. I have no idea why. Maybe the MOAIs?

Gigachad 4y ago

Also my conclusion. Aspartame and other sweeteners have been researched to death now and they still can’t tell me they have found anything. While other chemicals in regular use have real and concrete health issues.

mjevans 4y ago
It is practically impossible to conduct a long term health study on something like an artificial sweetener. The only way I can think of to accurately remove environmental noise is to collect extensive records on a _large_ population, and then line up A / B sets where the only major difference between the sets (other exposures similar) are the sweeteners. With a lot of samples that fulfill that criteria a historic review might be able to identify statistical anomalies towards outcomes (positive or negative) that are common to the matched A and B sides of the set. I could see an AI administering such a data collection and comparison in an accurate and ethical way; but only the scifi grade strong / true AI.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  It's also impossible to do this on almost every other substance we use. I'll focus my energy on avoiding things we know for sure are problematic like refined sugar and get to artificial sweeteners when everything else more important is solved.
  - Teever 4y ago
    Why not just avoid both?
    - eropple 4y ago
      Because humans are not automatons and there is value in deriving pleasure from one's lived experiences? This isn't a difficult question.
      - n_io 4y ago

bhk 4y ago

I don't think that's a balanced summary of the study. "Results from prospective cohort studies suggest the possibility of long-term harm in the form of increased risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases and mortality." And regarding the short-term weight loss, the confounding factor of reduction in sugar and overall energy intake seems to be the explanation. The "Concluding Remarks" section of the paper is a good, and very brief, encapsulation of the results.

ipaddr 4y ago

Your teeth will be affected. I spent a year drinking as much coke as I wanted. The teeth issues that resulted made me never drink the stuff again. If I could go back and tell my younger self one thing.. stay away from the coca cola.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

Yes I always figured if there is something, it's on the order of 10%-20% "bad outcome" vs being a sugar teetotalar. However since I avoid as much sugar as possible and have some splenda in my coffee and coke zero pretty much guilt free.