6 ms·

How is this compliant with the GDPR? Is the GDPR a complete joke?

formerkrogemp 4y ago
These companies operate in multiple countries. So, at a guess, they can implement this in areas where GDPR isn't a concern.
mildmotive 4y ago
I think once you sign a contract with one of these providers you’re basically signing away the rights to your personal information. GDPR wont protect you from state actors trying to spy on the people, but it will allow you to ask a company to delete all personal information about you. The problem is that doing so will effectively end the service for you. If all mobile carriers start enforcing predatory contracts then I don’t know if GDPR will be very effective here. Something additional will be required to stop this tracking. As it stands right now some European countries have started forcing ISPs to save logs, that’s actually worse. We must make sure that it’s well understood that the public does not want these policies. The public must also deny any party their vote if fixing this is not in their agenda. Politicians are getting away with slowly eroding our freedoms without many people noticing or speaking about it, that has to change. We need to let them know that they have zero support from us if they decide to continue in this trajectory.
- pixl97 4y ago
  >If all mobile carriers start enforcing predatory contracts then I don’t know if GDPR will be very effective here. I would assume the EU would act much faster than the US to add regulation against this behavior.
- AinderS 4y ago
  > If all mobile carriers start enforcing predatory contracts then I don’t know if GDPR will be very effective here. I thought the GDPR didn't allow signing away of privacy? Because if it does, then it's utterly useless - every webpage comes with a 100-page terms of service these days. > As it stands right now some European countries have started forcing ISPs to save logs, that’s actually worse. In fact the European Court of Justice declared that illegal [1], yet many countries simply ignored that ruling. You would think this would result in a large media assault about "subverting the rule of law", but I guess that's only a concern when they dislike the one doing the subverting. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-court-privacy-idUSKBN14A13I https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-court-privacy-idUSKBN1...
  - mildmotive 4y ago
    > I thought the GDPR didn't allow signing away of privacy? Because if it does, then it's utterly useless - every webpage comes with a 100-page terms of service these days. If that was the case Europeans wouldn’t have been able to use services like Facebook or iCloud. > In fact the European Court of Justice declared that illegal For example, Sweden did it shortly after an ISP Bahnhof advertised to its customers that it would not save logs. What seemed at the time to have fuelled this whole thing was mostly entertainment companies pushing these policies against European countries to crack down on piracy. Obviously an unsuccessful project. Many of our politicians traded our freedoms for the sake of the entertainment industry not losing money (supposedly). It didn’t serve its purpose, rather it just gave the government(s) more power over the people.
rglullis 4y ago
IP addresses are not PII, for starters. Plus, the networks won't be giving any of information about you, so GDPR has nothing to do with it.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  If they're literally doing it to target ads, it's definitely PII.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Think of who is "they" who is targeting the ads, and what "they" is collecting the data. Telcos are not giving anything except the IP address. If you go to other websites and don't provide your data to them, all they will have is an identifier about the IP. It is that data that can be managed under GDPR, but IP in isolation means nothing.
- tuukkah 4y ago
  In addition to PII, GDPR also protects against collection of IP addresses and any other identifiers that can reveal a person: "Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual. Different pieces of information, which collected together can lead to the identification of a particular person, also constitute personal data. [--] Examples of personal data [--] * an Internet Protocol (IP) address" https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...
  - rglullis 4y ago
    It's incredible how people read these things into what they wish it meant instead of what it actually means. I stand by what I said: IP addresses, by themselves, are not PII. To become PII, it needs to come with the data from the person visiting the website.
    - tuukkah 4y ago
dragon-hn 4y ago
They will ask you as a customer to opt into this sort of tracking program.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  Okay, so they ask you to opt in and you say no. IANAL but AIUI opt out or trying to force the issue (like making it a condition of service) are illegal, so if they actually follow the law pretty toothless.
anaganisk 4y ago
Once they succeed probably Verizon and AT&T will be next and there is no equivalent of GDPR in US.
- whoosh3 4y ago
  T-Mobile is largely owned by Deutsche Telekom. I wouldn't be surprised if they got in on the game.

These companies operate in multiple countries. So, at a guess, they can implement this in areas where GDPR isn't a concern.

mildmotive 4y ago

I think once you sign a contract with one of these providers you’re basically signing away the rights to your personal information. GDPR wont protect you from state actors trying to spy on the people, but it will allow you to ask a company to delete all personal information about you. The problem is that doing so will effectively end the service for you. If all mobile carriers start enforcing predatory contracts then I don’t know if GDPR will be very effective here. Something additional will be required to stop this tracking. As it stands right now some European countries have started forcing ISPs to save logs, that’s actually worse. We must make sure that it’s well understood that the public does not want these policies. The public must also deny any party their vote if fixing this is not in their agenda. Politicians are getting away with slowly eroding our freedoms without many people noticing or speaking about it, that has to change. We need to let them know that they have zero support from us if they decide to continue in this trajectory.

pixl97 4y ago
>If all mobile carriers start enforcing predatory contracts then I don’t know if GDPR will be very effective here. I would assume the EU would act much faster than the US to add regulation against this behavior.
AinderS 4y ago
> If all mobile carriers start enforcing predatory contracts then I don’t know if GDPR will be very effective here. I thought the GDPR didn't allow signing away of privacy? Because if it does, then it's utterly useless - every webpage comes with a 100-page terms of service these days. > As it stands right now some European countries have started forcing ISPs to save logs, that’s actually worse. In fact the European Court of Justice declared that illegal [1], yet many countries simply ignored that ruling. You would think this would result in a large media assault about "subverting the rule of law", but I guess that's only a concern when they dislike the one doing the subverting. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-court-privacy-idUSKBN14A13I https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-court-privacy-idUSKBN1...
- mildmotive 4y ago
  > I thought the GDPR didn't allow signing away of privacy? Because if it does, then it's utterly useless - every webpage comes with a 100-page terms of service these days. If that was the case Europeans wouldn’t have been able to use services like Facebook or iCloud. > In fact the European Court of Justice declared that illegal For example, Sweden did it shortly after an ISP Bahnhof advertised to its customers that it would not save logs. What seemed at the time to have fuelled this whole thing was mostly entertainment companies pushing these policies against European countries to crack down on piracy. Obviously an unsuccessful project. Many of our politicians traded our freedoms for the sake of the entertainment industry not losing money (supposedly). It didn’t serve its purpose, rather it just gave the government(s) more power over the people.

rglullis 4y ago

IP addresses are not PII, for starters. Plus, the networks won't be giving any of information about you, so GDPR has nothing to do with it.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
If they're literally doing it to target ads, it's definitely PII.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Think of who is "they" who is targeting the ads, and what "they" is collecting the data. Telcos are not giving anything except the IP address. If you go to other websites and don't provide your data to them, all they will have is an identifier about the IP. It is that data that can be managed under GDPR, but IP in isolation means nothing.
tuukkah 4y ago
In addition to PII, GDPR also protects against collection of IP addresses and any other identifiers that can reveal a person: "Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual. Different pieces of information, which collected together can lead to the identification of a particular person, also constitute personal data. [--] Examples of personal data [--] * an Internet Protocol (IP) address" https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...
- rglullis 4y ago
  It's incredible how people read these things into what they wish it meant instead of what it actually means. I stand by what I said: IP addresses, by themselves, are not PII. To become PII, it needs to come with the data from the person visiting the website.
  - tuukkah 4y ago

dragon-hn 4y ago

They will ask you as a customer to opt into this sort of tracking program.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
Okay, so they ask you to opt in and you say no. IANAL but AIUI opt out or trying to force the issue (like making it a condition of service) are illegal, so if they actually follow the law pretty toothless.

anaganisk 4y ago

Once they succeed probably Verizon and AT&T will be next and there is no equivalent of GDPR in US.

whoosh3 4y ago
T-Mobile is largely owned by Deutsche Telekom. I wouldn't be surprised if they got in on the game.