4 ms·

Brazil are good at soccer simply because they are the biggest country where soccer is the main sport so it will be hard to control for that trying to find other

Brazil are good at soccer simply because they are the biggest country where soccer is the main sport so it will be hard to control for that trying to find other reasons. It will be more interesting to look at small countries with relative success like Uruguay or Holland.

smcl 4y ago
Population is something that as a Scot mystifies me. We have a population similar to Croatia, yet they’ve been an incredible force in international football while we have languished in mediocrity, missing out on most major tournaments in the last 30 years. At a club level there’s no contest - our domestic leagues are usually ranked higher in the UEFA coefficient than Croatia’s and traditionally we’ve had greater success in Europe. We are at a slight disadvantage re our restricted ability to field emigre players (ie had Eduardo Da Silva signed for, say, Dundee United rather than Dynamo Zagreb he would not have been eligible for Scotland so easily) but I do not believe this has impacted us significantly. Though we are losing players to Ireland due to stupid self-inflicted eligibility rules at schools level - James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady opting to play for Ireland still saddens me to this day. I've heard talk of poorer countries turning out better players because at a crucial age (14-18) when you're choosing to commit to professional football you're basically choosing between rolling the dice at a professional career in football, or a more realistic longer term career through learning a trade or heading to university. And in this situation, it could be that the risk/reward is higher in somewhere like Croatia, Brazil or Argentina. But this doesn't explain why other small high-income countries like Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland are routinely competing at a higher level than we are. If I was a director at the Scottish Football Association I’d be closely studying what these countries are doing differently because there’s something we are desperately missing. I have my thoughts, but I'm just another armchair analyst with no power so it makes little sense to share them :)
- 32MHz 4y ago
  Where do the best Scottish players go to play club football? In the nations you listed, the best of the best end up in Barca, RM, Bayern, etc… They then return with best practices and an aura that influences the entire team. If Scottish club football is the pinnacle for Scottish players then this may be a factor?
  - smcl 4y ago
    The best Scottish players go south and play in the Premier League in England or the Championship. But England can be very sink-or-swim in my opinion, Billy Gilmour was (and IMO is) a promising youngster who has basically been told he's got no future at Chelsea even though he's very talented. There's been a potentially promising recent trend recently of a few Scottish youngsters being sought out in Italy - Aaron Hickey had signed for Bologna a year back and a great season, Liam Henderson is a regular at Empoli and Lewis Ferguson left Aberdeen for (coincidentally) Bologna this season. I say it's a trend because it's so recent and so unlikely, previously if a Scot played in Italy they were truly a superstar. We're talking Joe Jordan, Denis Law and Graeme Souness. Personally I hope Gilmour ends up in Serie A or La Liga. That said, you may have a point. Many Scots boys grow up idolising Celtic or Rangers. It could be that many get signed for their boyhood club and choose to remain there, even if a club who is better for their long-term development is interested.
- borroka 4y ago
  The relative success of one country vs another is multifactorial, mysterious, and I would have a lot to say about it, or better, to speculate about, but for now I will simply say that Scotland is a small country, therefore with a limited number of candidates for international-level football, and is losing part of their talent pool to the sport of rugby. Most of the backs and some flankers would definitely be good candidates for top-level football. Croatia has basketball, but the talent pools for basketball and football do not overlap. Then, we are talking here about national teams. At the club level, the performance of teams from Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland is far from that of teams from the most, football-wise, prestigious countries.
  - smcl 4y ago
    I would strongly disagree that we're losing players to rugby. While rugby is (IMO[0]) the second sport in Scotland far more youngsters play football than rugby, and in practical terms the potential for making a career out of rugby is more unlikely than football. So I don't think that we're spreading ourselves more thinly than Croatia are, I think there's something more to it than that. [0] - I actually read a while back that Cricket had more registered players than Rugby in Scotland, but I take this with a pinch of salt. But make no doubt about it, our sporting focus is roughly similarly focussed on Football to Croatia's.
  - FredPret 4y ago
    Pro rugby players and pro soccer players usually look like they're barely from the same species - I'd be amazed if anyone has the opportunity of choosing a first class career in both sports
- nmfisher 4y ago
  Similarly, China is notoriously terrible at international football, despite an enormous population and it being a reasonably popular sport.
  - smcl 4y ago
    You're right, China is another peculiar outlier on the other side of the spectrum. I wondered whether the reason is that they've got pretty solid pipeline that reliably turns kids into elite Olympic athletes, so maybe potential world class footballers (+ funding) are diverted into those programs instead.
- golemiprague 4y ago

smcl 4y ago

Population is something that as a Scot mystifies me. We have a population similar to Croatia, yet they’ve been an incredible force in international football while we have languished in mediocrity, missing out on most major tournaments in the last 30 years. At a club level there’s no contest - our domestic leagues are usually ranked higher in the UEFA coefficient than Croatia’s and traditionally we’ve had greater success in Europe. We are at a slight disadvantage re our restricted ability to field emigre players (ie had Eduardo Da Silva signed for, say, Dundee United rather than Dynamo Zagreb he would not have been eligible for Scotland so easily) but I do not believe this has impacted us significantly. Though we are losing players to Ireland due to stupid self-inflicted eligibility rules at schools level - James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady opting to play for Ireland still saddens me to this day. I've heard talk of poorer countries turning out better players because at a crucial age (14-18) when you're choosing to commit to professional football you're basically choosing between rolling the dice at a professional career in football, or a more realistic longer term career through learning a trade or heading to university. And in this situation, it could be that the risk/reward is higher in somewhere like Croatia, Brazil or Argentina. But this doesn't explain why other small high-income countries like Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland are routinely competing at a higher level than we are. If I was a director at the Scottish Football Association I’d be closely studying what these countries are doing differently because there’s something we are desperately missing. I have my thoughts, but I'm just another armchair analyst with no power so it makes little sense to share them :)

32MHz 4y ago
Where do the best Scottish players go to play club football? In the nations you listed, the best of the best end up in Barca, RM, Bayern, etc… They then return with best practices and an aura that influences the entire team. If Scottish club football is the pinnacle for Scottish players then this may be a factor?
- smcl 4y ago
  The best Scottish players go south and play in the Premier League in England or the Championship. But England can be very sink-or-swim in my opinion, Billy Gilmour was (and IMO is) a promising youngster who has basically been told he's got no future at Chelsea even though he's very talented. There's been a potentially promising recent trend recently of a few Scottish youngsters being sought out in Italy - Aaron Hickey had signed for Bologna a year back and a great season, Liam Henderson is a regular at Empoli and Lewis Ferguson left Aberdeen for (coincidentally) Bologna this season. I say it's a trend because it's so recent and so unlikely, previously if a Scot played in Italy they were truly a superstar. We're talking Joe Jordan, Denis Law and Graeme Souness. Personally I hope Gilmour ends up in Serie A or La Liga. That said, you may have a point. Many Scots boys grow up idolising Celtic or Rangers. It could be that many get signed for their boyhood club and choose to remain there, even if a club who is better for their long-term development is interested.
borroka 4y ago
The relative success of one country vs another is multifactorial, mysterious, and I would have a lot to say about it, or better, to speculate about, but for now I will simply say that Scotland is a small country, therefore with a limited number of candidates for international-level football, and is losing part of their talent pool to the sport of rugby. Most of the backs and some flankers would definitely be good candidates for top-level football. Croatia has basketball, but the talent pools for basketball and football do not overlap. Then, we are talking here about national teams. At the club level, the performance of teams from Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland is far from that of teams from the most, football-wise, prestigious countries.
- smcl 4y ago
  I would strongly disagree that we're losing players to rugby. While rugby is (IMO[0]) the second sport in Scotland far more youngsters play football than rugby, and in practical terms the potential for making a career out of rugby is more unlikely than football. So I don't think that we're spreading ourselves more thinly than Croatia are, I think there's something more to it than that. [0] - I actually read a while back that Cricket had more registered players than Rugby in Scotland, but I take this with a pinch of salt. But make no doubt about it, our sporting focus is roughly similarly focussed on Football to Croatia's.
- FredPret 4y ago
  Pro rugby players and pro soccer players usually look like they're barely from the same species - I'd be amazed if anyone has the opportunity of choosing a first class career in both sports
nmfisher 4y ago
Similarly, China is notoriously terrible at international football, despite an enormous population and it being a reasonably popular sport.
- smcl 4y ago
  You're right, China is another peculiar outlier on the other side of the spectrum. I wondered whether the reason is that they've got pretty solid pipeline that reliably turns kids into elite Olympic athletes, so maybe potential world class footballers (+ funding) are diverted into those programs instead.
golemiprague 4y ago