4 ms·

How is this different than trading equities on the stock market (a decidedly non-libertarian culture)? Stock brokerages provide the exact same disclaimers - eq

How is this different than trading equities on the stock market (a decidedly non-libertarian culture)? Stock brokerages provide the exact same disclaimers - equities are inherently high-risk assets in which you can lose everything you've put in.

nharada 4y ago
I actually think the stock brokerages have done a similar thing -- it used to be that sophisticated and risky products like high leverage options were not available to retail traders who didn't have the money to lose, but with the rise of meme stocks and Robinhood things have changed. I'm not saying I think that's okay either. And look, I'm not defending the current banking system. Should average people have no options while the wealthy can use complex derivatives to increase their wealth and power? Probably not. I'm just pointing out that the crypto world shouldn't be doing this specific thing.
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  I agree that brokerages have done similar lately, with massive ad campaigns targeting retail traders, gamifying their apps, and generally obfuscating the risks involved to less-informed individuals. And as you mention in the second part, it is a very difficult and tricky balance between protecting retail traders while preventing them access to instruments that the wealthy can use to further increase wealth. As an example, it used to be that USA-based customers could leverage trade (short trade or margin leverage long trade) on crypto exchanges, for example Kraken. However, due to regulatory pressure, Kraken now requires registering as an Eligible Contract Participant in order to margin/leverage trade - the key requirement being proof of $10M in discretionary assets. On one hand, this is probably a net "good" - short trading or leveraged long trades are _extremely_ risky, with the former having infinite loss potential and the latter resulting in margin calls or a greater loss than the account is worth (i.e. you're in debt to the exchange). I have little doubt that retail traders would've lost more money were this restriction not in place. On the other hand, this reeks of "you must be this rich to enter; peons need not apply". A wealthy person can 66
jollybean 4y ago
Stocks are assets. Ownership of an economic entity, that publishes a lot of financial data to the public, so we can establish value. Public companies are highly regulated with respect to this. Securities trading etc. are also regulated. Crypto is magic made fantasy up numbers. At least with baseball cards, you get a baseball card.
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  You're proving the point. If a regulated industry like the equities market come with warnings that they are risky and you can lose your entire investment, it applies even moreso to crypto.

nharada 4y ago

I actually think the stock brokerages have done a similar thing -- it used to be that sophisticated and risky products like high leverage options were not available to retail traders who didn't have the money to lose, but with the rise of meme stocks and Robinhood things have changed. I'm not saying I think that's okay either. And look, I'm not defending the current banking system. Should average people have no options while the wealthy can use complex derivatives to increase their wealth and power? Probably not. I'm just pointing out that the crypto world shouldn't be doing this specific thing.

oarabbus_ 4y ago
I agree that brokerages have done similar lately, with massive ad campaigns targeting retail traders, gamifying their apps, and generally obfuscating the risks involved to less-informed individuals. And as you mention in the second part, it is a very difficult and tricky balance between protecting retail traders while preventing them access to instruments that the wealthy can use to further increase wealth. As an example, it used to be that USA-based customers could leverage trade (short trade or margin leverage long trade) on crypto exchanges, for example Kraken. However, due to regulatory pressure, Kraken now requires registering as an Eligible Contract Participant in order to margin/leverage trade - the key requirement being proof of $10M in discretionary assets. On one hand, this is probably a net "good" - short trading or leveraged long trades are _extremely_ risky, with the former having infinite loss potential and the latter resulting in margin calls or a greater loss than the account is worth (i.e. you're in debt to the exchange). I have little doubt that retail traders would've lost more money were this restriction not in place. On the other hand, this reeks of "you must be this rich to enter; peons need not apply". A wealthy person can 66

jollybean 4y ago

Stocks are assets. Ownership of an economic entity, that publishes a lot of financial data to the public, so we can establish value. Public companies are highly regulated with respect to this. Securities trading etc. are also regulated. Crypto is magic made fantasy up numbers. At least with baseball cards, you get a baseball card.

oarabbus_ 4y ago
You're proving the point. If a regulated industry like the equities market come with warnings that they are risky and you can lose your entire investment, it applies even moreso to crypto.