4 ms·

Wow, the author got falsely accused of posting revenge porn, a criminal act by the way, and your answer is take it? Why are you so intent on attacking the autho

Wow, the author got falsely accused of posting revenge porn, a criminal act by the way, and your answer is take it? Why are you so intent on attacking the author’s character for simply defending himself?

pvg 4y ago
Twitter's auto moderation screwing up on your cat game video is not being 'falsely accused of posting revenge porn, a criminal act'.
- soraminazuki 4y ago
  Excuse me? That is exactly what Twitter accused the author of doing. The policy which Twitter referred to according to the article has the words “Non-consensual nudity policy” written in huge letters [1]. Do those words mean something other than revenge porn? [1]: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/intimate-media https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/intimate-medi...
  - pvg 4y ago
    They sent him an automated private message misidentifying one of his videos. This is obviously lame and annoying but no, he was not accused of a crime he did not commit or have to escape from a military stockade into the Los Angeles underground.
    - sillysaurusx 4y ago
      As a fly on the wall, I think you’re both right! Both of your points are good, and aren’t mutually exclusive at all. TikTok sends automated messages all the time accusing people of ridiculous things (mostly during livestreams). I bet if you were subjected to that on a regular basis, you might feel a little differently.
    - soraminazuki 4y ago
      So if I send you an automated message saying that you have done something illegal, you’d be fine with that? That’s not accusing you of a crime? That’s absurd.
      - pvg 4y ago
        'crime', 'illegal', etc, are rhetorical escalations you brought into this. Twitter suspends accounts that violate its policy against "intimate photos or videos of someone that were produced or distributed without their consent". The policy includes content that appears to be that but might not be, content posted inadvertently or with the intent to report, etc. There's no mention of crime and of course, there's no easy way to know whether a particular post would actually be criminal and in what jurisdictions. Those are things you just declared, Twitter doesn't.
        soraminazuki 4y ago
        That’s a lot of words spinning a factual event into a “rhetorical escalation.” The fact is plain and simple, Twitter accused the author of posting revenge porn. Posting revenge porn is, despite your objections, considered a crime. Therefore, Twitter accused the author of a crime.
        ruined 4y ago
    - rpdillon 4y ago
      The flagged post was reviewed by two humans. I think you're overemphasizing the 'automated' aspect here, which is just an implementation detail AFAICT. Posting revenge porn is a crime, though I agree Twitter doesn't seem to be calling the cops. If they did, I don't think the evidence would be compelling enough to even bring charges, much less a conviction. But the account stays suspended regardless.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > The flagged post was reviewed by two humans. How do you know? I wouldn't be surprised in the appeals are automated too, especially the initial ones.
        rpdillon 4y ago
        Having ML handle appeals strikes me as implausible, but possible.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        I guess the question is "is it Twitter's goal to have the appeals process work, or just exist?" If they have some dumb automation that just rejects most initial attempts, it could discourage their users to the point where they can employ a much smaller staff to handle the appeals. Especially if the sanction can be solved by the user just deleting the content.
        rpdillon 4y ago
        I'll admit that my initial comment was somewhat biased coming from another thread in this discussion discussing verbal abuse of the moderation team. In that context, my assumption was that they were human, naturally. Your point is fair, though, especially considering Twitter's scale.
    - Groxx 4y ago
      They didn't file a police report, no, but this is absolutely the equivalent of verbally accusing someone of posting revenge porn. If someone walked up to you and said "Your most-recent tweet is revenge porn and it's disgusting" and then reiterated that after double checking both the innocuous tweet and that they had the correct person, you would probably be claiming they incorrectly accused you of tweeting revenge porn (i.e. a crime). Because that's precisely what they just did. That Twitter is letting a machine they built do that for them does not remove their responsibility around the act, nor make it somehow not an accusation. If anything it seems safe to claim that it's more than an accusation. They're acting on it, doling out (minor) punishment along with the accusation.
      - pvg 4y ago
        When the security person at Best Buy stops you to check if your receipt matches what's in your cart when you head out, they're not accusing you of theft.
        Groxx 4y ago
        That's not even remotely what happened here though. When they stop you, say "you stole that", ignore that your receipt says you paid, kick you out of the store, and stop you from coming back, they are pretty clearly accusing you of theft. That's a straightforward translation of what Twitter did.
        pvg 4y ago
        Whatever 'translation' you choose, none of it comes anywhere close to accusation of a crime. It's pretty plain from reading the message and the policy. You have to lean pretty far into bombast to turn it into that. Which, if that's how you choose, to read it, fair enough but it has no basis in any of Twitter's actual communication with this user.
        Groxx 4y ago
        No? If I say "you distribute revenge porn", I'm accusing you of a crime. There's no ambiguity there. Revenge porn is a criminal act nearly everywhere. In some states and some situations, it's even a felony, which is a significant step up in severity. I haven't informed your local authorities that you do this. But that doesn't have any affect on whether or not I am accusing you. >An accusation is informally stating that a person has committed an illegal or immoral act. - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accusation https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accusation Twitter has unambiguously made the claim that they are tweeting revenge porn. Twitter has clearly stated that doing so is the reason their account is banned. They're accusing them of a crime. It's not bombastic or stretching, it's the literal description of what Twitter (via their bot and their review process) is doing.

pvg 4y ago

Twitter's auto moderation screwing up on your cat game video is not being 'falsely accused of posting revenge porn, a criminal act'.

soraminazuki 4y ago
Excuse me? That is exactly what Twitter accused the author of doing. The policy which Twitter referred to according to the article has the words “Non-consensual nudity policy” written in huge letters [1]. Do those words mean something other than revenge porn? [1]: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/intimate-media https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/intimate-medi...
- pvg 4y ago
  They sent him an automated private message misidentifying one of his videos. This is obviously lame and annoying but no, he was not accused of a crime he did not commit or have to escape from a military stockade into the Los Angeles underground.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    As a fly on the wall, I think you’re both right! Both of your points are good, and aren’t mutually exclusive at all. TikTok sends automated messages all the time accusing people of ridiculous things (mostly during livestreams). I bet if you were subjected to that on a regular basis, you might feel a little differently.
  - soraminazuki 4y ago
    So if I send you an automated message saying that you have done something illegal, you’d be fine with that? That’s not accusing you of a crime? That’s absurd.
    - pvg 4y ago
      'crime', 'illegal', etc, are rhetorical escalations you brought into this. Twitter suspends accounts that violate its policy against "intimate photos or videos of someone that were produced or distributed without their consent". The policy includes content that appears to be that but might not be, content posted inadvertently or with the intent to report, etc. There's no mention of crime and of course, there's no easy way to know whether a particular post would actually be criminal and in what jurisdictions. Those are things you just declared, Twitter doesn't.
      - soraminazuki 4y ago
        That’s a lot of words spinning a factual event into a “rhetorical escalation.” The fact is plain and simple, Twitter accused the author of posting revenge porn. Posting revenge porn is, despite your objections, considered a crime. Therefore, Twitter accused the author of a crime.
      - ruined 4y ago
  - rpdillon 4y ago
    The flagged post was reviewed by two humans. I think you're overemphasizing the 'automated' aspect here, which is just an implementation detail AFAICT. Posting revenge porn is a crime, though I agree Twitter doesn't seem to be calling the cops. If they did, I don't think the evidence would be compelling enough to even bring charges, much less a conviction. But the account stays suspended regardless.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > The flagged post was reviewed by two humans. How do you know? I wouldn't be surprised in the appeals are automated too, especially the initial ones.
      - rpdillon 4y ago
        Having ML handle appeals strikes me as implausible, but possible.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        I guess the question is "is it Twitter's goal to have the appeals process work, or just exist?" If they have some dumb automation that just rejects most initial attempts, it could discourage their users to the point where they can employ a much smaller staff to handle the appeals. Especially if the sanction can be solved by the user just deleting the content.
        rpdillon 4y ago
        I'll admit that my initial comment was somewhat biased coming from another thread in this discussion discussing verbal abuse of the moderation team. In that context, my assumption was that they were human, naturally. Your point is fair, though, especially considering Twitter's scale.
  - Groxx 4y ago
    They didn't file a police report, no, but this is absolutely the equivalent of verbally accusing someone of posting revenge porn. If someone walked up to you and said "Your most-recent tweet is revenge porn and it's disgusting" and then reiterated that after double checking both the innocuous tweet and that they had the correct person, you would probably be claiming they incorrectly accused you of tweeting revenge porn (i.e. a crime). Because that's precisely what they just did. That Twitter is letting a machine they built do that for them does not remove their responsibility around the act, nor make it somehow not an accusation. If anything it seems safe to claim that it's more than an accusation. They're acting on it, doling out (minor) punishment along with the accusation.
    - pvg 4y ago
      When the security person at Best Buy stops you to check if your receipt matches what's in your cart when you head out, they're not accusing you of theft.
      - Groxx 4y ago
        That's not even remotely what happened here though. When they stop you, say "you stole that", ignore that your receipt says you paid, kick you out of the store, and stop you from coming back, they are pretty clearly accusing you of theft. That's a straightforward translation of what Twitter did.
        pvg 4y ago
        Whatever 'translation' you choose, none of it comes anywhere close to accusation of a crime. It's pretty plain from reading the message and the policy. You have to lean pretty far into bombast to turn it into that. Which, if that's how you choose, to read it, fair enough but it has no basis in any of Twitter's actual communication with this user.
        Groxx 4y ago
        No? If I say "you distribute revenge porn", I'm accusing you of a crime. There's no ambiguity there. Revenge porn is a criminal act nearly everywhere. In some states and some situations, it's even a felony, which is a significant step up in severity. I haven't informed your local authorities that you do this. But that doesn't have any affect on whether or not I am accusing you. >An accusation is informally stating that a person has committed an illegal or immoral act. - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accusation https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accusation Twitter has unambiguously made the claim that they are tweeting revenge porn. Twitter has clearly stated that doing so is the reason their account is banned. They're accusing them of a crime. It's not bombastic or stretching, it's the literal description of what Twitter (via their bot and their review process) is doing.