5 ms·

In a sense, student loan forgiveness is making the financially responsible (self-taught, self-made, more valuable degree, worked through college) pay for the fi

In a sense, student loan forgiveness is making the financially responsible (self-taught, self-made, more valuable degree, worked through college) pay for the financially irresponsible.

blowski 4y ago
Those who work through college are more likely to have worse outcomes, and they're still likely to have a high debt. Those who went to college and have no debt are more likely to come from wealthy families. And if we say "only those who can afford it should go to college", then you are discouraging pretty much the best opportunity for social mobility.
- iratewizard 4y ago
  College isn't an opportunity for social mobility anymore. The cost of tuition shoots up as the curriculum relaxes. It's an investment trap for people who can't do the math and listen too closely to what their midwit school teachers believe about the world.
  - bitexploder 4y ago
    And yet, you can usually go to community college and then a reasonably well regarded state school without taking on crazy debt. It is when you go out of state and live in campus housing that costs balloon.
    - iratewizard 4y ago
      Community college can be a great investment in some cases, definitely. Especially for people who struggle with setting goals and self-discipline. If you have self-discipline and know what you want to be able to do, there can be a lot of unnecessary time waste in the classroom. I would be curious to break down and audit time against 4 buckets of things you will learn. Things you "need to know", "ought to know", "don't need" and "don't actually understand". I wonder how long it takes to fill each bucket and how much faster the latter two grow. Experience is the best teacher of all and additional schooling is the biggest barrier to useful experience.
patiobypic 4y ago
but those 'financially irresponsible' people include those who work in professions that don't pay well but the rest of us rely on, like those that care for kids or people with disabilities. They also include people who have any other unexpected event in their life that affects their employability or income.
- iratewizard 4y ago
  If you want to go into charity work, don't expect to be paid like a brain surgeon. If you can't afford the education required to go into charity work, start a GoFundMe or choose something more attainable. Stop spending other's money because of vague handwavey "we need it and it doesn't pay well"
  - blowski 4y ago
    You're picking two extremes that make your argument sound very simple. But what do you think about teachers? Should we: a) Forgive their student debt b) Discourage non-wealthy people from becoming teachers c) Force schools to pay them more d) Pay them more via GoFundMe e) Have less educated teachers
    - iratewizard 4y ago
      f) Rely on teachers less and let their value be established by the free market Being forced to pay a school that your children don't attend is rent seeking. Strip schools of all rent seeking funding, make tax money follow the child and let the parents on vote what education style works with their children's attendance.
      - blowski 4y ago
        If you've got the answers to these difficult problems, what's stopping you from enacting them?
        iratewizard 4y ago

In a sense, student loan forgiveness is making the financially responsible (self-taught, self-made, more valuable degree, worked through college) pay for the financially irresponsible.

blowski 4y ago

Those who work through college are more likely to have worse outcomes, and they're still likely to have a high debt. Those who went to college and have no debt are more likely to come from wealthy families. And if we say "only those who can afford it should go to college", then you are discouraging pretty much the best opportunity for social mobility.

iratewizard 4y ago
College isn't an opportunity for social mobility anymore. The cost of tuition shoots up as the curriculum relaxes. It's an investment trap for people who can't do the math and listen too closely to what their midwit school teachers believe about the world.
- bitexploder 4y ago
  And yet, you can usually go to community college and then a reasonably well regarded state school without taking on crazy debt. It is when you go out of state and live in campus housing that costs balloon.
  - iratewizard 4y ago
    Community college can be a great investment in some cases, definitely. Especially for people who struggle with setting goals and self-discipline. If you have self-discipline and know what you want to be able to do, there can be a lot of unnecessary time waste in the classroom. I would be curious to break down and audit time against 4 buckets of things you will learn. Things you "need to know", "ought to know", "don't need" and "don't actually understand". I wonder how long it takes to fill each bucket and how much faster the latter two grow. Experience is the best teacher of all and additional schooling is the biggest barrier to useful experience.

patiobypic 4y ago

but those 'financially irresponsible' people include those who work in professions that don't pay well but the rest of us rely on, like those that care for kids or people with disabilities. They also include people who have any other unexpected event in their life that affects their employability or income.

iratewizard 4y ago
If you want to go into charity work, don't expect to be paid like a brain surgeon. If you can't afford the education required to go into charity work, start a GoFundMe or choose something more attainable. Stop spending other's money because of vague handwavey "we need it and it doesn't pay well"
- blowski 4y ago
  You're picking two extremes that make your argument sound very simple. But what do you think about teachers? Should we: a) Forgive their student debt b) Discourage non-wealthy people from becoming teachers c) Force schools to pay them more d) Pay them more via GoFundMe e) Have less educated teachers
  - iratewizard 4y ago
    f) Rely on teachers less and let their value be established by the free market Being forced to pay a school that your children don't attend is rent seeking. Strip schools of all rent seeking funding, make tax money follow the child and let the parents on vote what education style works with their children's attendance.
    - blowski 4y ago
      If you've got the answers to these difficult problems, what's stopping you from enacting them?
      - iratewizard 4y ago