4 ms·

I don't like to criticize things I get for free.

by jonnycomputer 4y ago

bicijay 4y ago
I mean... Why not?
- Godel_unicode 4y ago
  It’s extremely rude, and a great way to convince people who make useful free stuff that the world is composed of assholes and that it’s not worth it.
  - bawolff 4y ago
    As someone who has made free stuff in the past, what's even the point if other people don't engage with it? And does it even count as engagement if its just fluff and not critical engagement? Positive vibes only makes the positive vibes meaningless.
    - Godel_unicode 4y ago
      As someone who has made lots of free stuff that tons of people actually use, the internet is full of people who think that they are super insightful and that their scathing indictments of the shade of grey that you picked are incredibly useful. It’s full of people who think that they are entitled to have no social skills because they “know UX”. It’s orders of magnitude easier to destroy than to create, and our culture is all about supposed experts gate-keeping with their banal comments about UX problems that boil down to personal preference.
      - bawolff 4y ago
        To be clear, i definitely agree, the internet is full of crazy people with irrational complaints. I suppose i consider that part of the price of putting oneself out there. Its hard to imagine getting rid of that without throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.
  - modriano 4y ago
    If you spent a lot of time making something useful to a small set of users who already had extensive domain knowledge, but users without extensive domain knowledge found it confusing and couldn't derive value from your product would you prefer A) they tell you about their experience, or B) users just view your product, quietly wonder "what am I looking at?", the silently move on?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- thombat 4y ago
  Meant for a reply to the adjacent Godel_unicode but the nesting limit (?) precludes that: No, rude asshole criticism is extremely rude. Well-pitched constructive criticism is a gift, although you'd be right to say that when addressing strangers it's easy to come across as a demanding prick. So if you can provide that feedback for improvement along with sincere praise then criticize away.
  - yababa_y 4y ago
    > but the nesting limit (?) precludes that the nesting limit is way deeper than this, there's a cooldown timer for replying too fast in a thread. and if you view the page for the comment, you can always reply.
    - thombat 4y ago
      Thanks for the explanation! Since my last comment on anything was a couple of days ago I guess the cooldown gets tripped by something else too (possibly I went back+forward a couple of times so looked like obsessive reloading)
      - jamiek88 4y ago
        No, you just need to click on the ‘n time ago’ bit which opens that comment which then enables you to reply directly no matter how nested or save/favorite. I.e. your comment I replied to said ‘2 hours ago’ I clicked there and replied.
sonofhans 4y ago
You’re welcome to that, of course. There’s prior art: “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth,” etc. But there is, for one thing, a difference between a personal gift, and publishing something for public use. Consider that you’re literally contradicting one of the foundations of the Internet — criticism and improvement. How many websites have you or I visited in the last 25 years? If none of us criticized things we got for free, most critique would never occur at all. How would we learn and improve without that? I mean, is creating a bug ticket on a FOSS Github project criticizing something you get for free? It strikes me as an odd position. Now of course one shouldn’t be an asshole while criticizing, or hurt people deliberately. But I don’t see any of that in my comment.
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  Not everything on the internet or web is really intended for public consumption, even if it is left open to it. The standard for a personal tool is far different than one intended as a tool for general use.
bequanna 4y ago
Fair enough, but I think most people appreciate constructive criticism with good faith, specific suggestions on how to improve.
otikik 4y ago
Was that not a piece of free UX feedback?
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  Sometimes free still costs too much. (:
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    Like gift horses?
    - jonnycomputer 4y ago
      At my work, in the break room, some people left stuff on the table for anyone to take. A neti pot, an Outback Steakhouse bobblehead figurine, some Christian romance novel. They stayed on the table for three years, until I threw them away.

I don't like to criticize things I get for free.

bicijay 4y ago

I mean... Why not?

Godel_unicode 4y ago
It’s extremely rude, and a great way to convince people who make useful free stuff that the world is composed of assholes and that it’s not worth it.
- bawolff 4y ago
  As someone who has made free stuff in the past, what's even the point if other people don't engage with it? And does it even count as engagement if its just fluff and not critical engagement? Positive vibes only makes the positive vibes meaningless.
  - Godel_unicode 4y ago
    As someone who has made lots of free stuff that tons of people actually use, the internet is full of people who think that they are super insightful and that their scathing indictments of the shade of grey that you picked are incredibly useful. It’s full of people who think that they are entitled to have no social skills because they “know UX”. It’s orders of magnitude easier to destroy than to create, and our culture is all about supposed experts gate-keeping with their banal comments about UX problems that boil down to personal preference.
    - bawolff 4y ago
      To be clear, i definitely agree, the internet is full of crazy people with irrational complaints. I suppose i consider that part of the price of putting oneself out there. Its hard to imagine getting rid of that without throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.
- modriano 4y ago
  If you spent a lot of time making something useful to a small set of users who already had extensive domain knowledge, but users without extensive domain knowledge found it confusing and couldn't derive value from your product would you prefer A) they tell you about their experience, or B) users just view your product, quietly wonder "what am I looking at?", the silently move on?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
thombat 4y ago
Meant for a reply to the adjacent Godel_unicode but the nesting limit (?) precludes that: No, rude asshole criticism is extremely rude. Well-pitched constructive criticism is a gift, although you'd be right to say that when addressing strangers it's easy to come across as a demanding prick. So if you can provide that feedback for improvement along with sincere praise then criticize away.
- yababa_y 4y ago
  > but the nesting limit (?) precludes that the nesting limit is way deeper than this, there's a cooldown timer for replying too fast in a thread. and if you view the page for the comment, you can always reply.
  - thombat 4y ago
    Thanks for the explanation! Since my last comment on anything was a couple of days ago I guess the cooldown gets tripped by something else too (possibly I went back+forward a couple of times so looked like obsessive reloading)
    - jamiek88 4y ago
      No, you just need to click on the ‘n time ago’ bit which opens that comment which then enables you to reply directly no matter how nested or save/favorite. I.e. your comment I replied to said ‘2 hours ago’ I clicked there and replied.

sonofhans 4y ago

You’re welcome to that, of course. There’s prior art: “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth,” etc. But there is, for one thing, a difference between a personal gift, and publishing something for public use. Consider that you’re literally contradicting one of the foundations of the Internet — criticism and improvement. How many websites have you or I visited in the last 25 years? If none of us criticized things we got for free, most critique would never occur at all. How would we learn and improve without that? I mean, is creating a bug ticket on a FOSS Github project criticizing something you get for free? It strikes me as an odd position. Now of course one shouldn’t be an asshole while criticizing, or hurt people deliberately. But I don’t see any of that in my comment.

jonnycomputer 4y ago
Not everything on the internet or web is really intended for public consumption, even if it is left open to it. The standard for a personal tool is far different than one intended as a tool for general use.

bequanna 4y ago

Fair enough, but I think most people appreciate constructive criticism with good faith, specific suggestions on how to improve.

otikik 4y ago

Was that not a piece of free UX feedback?

jonnycomputer 4y ago
Sometimes free still costs too much. (:
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  Like gift horses?
  - jonnycomputer 4y ago
    At my work, in the break room, some people left stuff on the table for anyone to take. A neti pot, an Outback Steakhouse bobblehead figurine, some Christian romance novel. They stayed on the table for three years, until I threw them away.