5 ms·

I'm not qualified to evaluate how plausible this is, but if it does actually work out it could be a huge boost in multiple ways. Air conditioning accounts for

I'm not qualified to evaluate how plausible this is, but if it does actually work out it could be a huge boost in multiple ways. Air conditioning accounts for somewhere around 10% of US energy usage [1] and probably more in southern areas. Cutting that by a third is a lot. Not to mention the potential range extension for BEVs - in some of my BEV testing earlier this year, HVAC cut range by around 20% (note this wouldn't necessarily help much for heating, which is usually a bigger range impact). [1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=1174&t=1 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=1174&t=1

jeofken 4y ago
Do you have any data on air conditioning and EV range? I find nothing helps as much as going 110kmph (~70mph) rather than speeding at 130kmph (~80mph).
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  I'd be interested in seeing data on that too.
- bufferoverflow 4y ago
  The peak efficiency is at around 38mph https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0196/5170/files/model_s100_range_temp_imperial_grande.png?v=1530552309 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0196/5170/files/model_s100...
- consp 4y ago
  My Aircon uses about 4kw (3 to 4 is typical) plus several 100s W for the fan. So ev usage time times that is the reduced power available and thus reduced range. It is just as noticeable on a petrol car especially on lower power compact versions, it won't have too much impact on gas guzzling engines since they are already inefficient and usually more powerful so it is less noticeable, though the added consumption will be more of course.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Presuming that the AC condensor gets airflow from the car moving through the air, it is going to be more efficient if the car is moving faster. However after a point, the air resistance will be hurting range more than anything.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  Kona EV has a page on power consumption, which at 30C ambient temperature and a long drive said I used about 4% on AC. Same amount goes to "electronics" which I find surprising.
- rasz 4y ago
  didnt you read the scamvertis^^^article? “There’s a huge opportunity in electric vehicles (EVs) and particularly electric buses because integration of our dehumidifiers in their air conditioning systems can extend their driving ranges by up to 75 percent,” said Matt Jore, CEO of Montana Technologies. __extend their driving ranges by up to 75 percent__
jonnycomputer 4y ago
I'm not qualified either, however, we can see from [1] that in southern states summer energy use jumps like crazy--almost all because of AC--peaking when solar production drops to about half around 6pm [2]. Given that humidity affects both the efficiency of AC, and personal comfort (sometimes I run the AC just to dehumidify), and the fact that it's only going to get hotter with GW, and more humid (because warmer air can hold more water), targeting AC efficiency is a BFD. I posted to here because (a) government lab, so has some credibility, and (b) getting feedback from the HN community who might have informed opinions about it. [1] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36692 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36692 [2] https://jrenewables.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40807-018-0054-3/figures/5 https://jrenewables.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40807...
- dpierce9 4y ago
  Your second citation does not show AC peaking at 6, it shows Solar and Wind use averages over time of day. I don’t know when AC use peaks but total use tends to peak before 6PM while residential use peaks in the morning and evening [1]. Solar does fall off around then and rather suddenly for any given longitude. But what you see with the duck curve (slouching midday prices with a 6PM peak) in California is reduced grid demand. Grid demand is not the same as energy use because of behind the meter generation (e.g., rooftop solar). The duck curve shape is caused by replacement energy use from solar not reduced energy use. [1] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915
  - jonnycomputer 4y ago
    Thank you. My second citation was to show that solar availability in summer drops by about 6. My assertion about peak AC was based on your citation. Actually, I thought that I had linked to it in my post. My intention was to link to the other two and that one; somehow that got lost; a case of too many tabs, maybe.
vel0city 4y ago
I recently got back from a few hundred mile road trip in >100F temperatures in an EV with decently high (40%+) humidity. Climate was <5% of the energy usage as reported by the car. Even when driving around town in 114F weather, its rarely been >15% of my overall energy usage.

jeofken 4y ago

Do you have any data on air conditioning and EV range? I find nothing helps as much as going 110kmph (~70mph) rather than speeding at 130kmph (~80mph).

jonnycomputer 4y ago
I'd be interested in seeing data on that too.
bufferoverflow 4y ago
The peak efficiency is at around 38mph https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0196/5170/files/model_s100_range_temp_imperial_grande.png?v=1530552309 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0196/5170/files/model_s100...
consp 4y ago
My Aircon uses about 4kw (3 to 4 is typical) plus several 100s W for the fan. So ev usage time times that is the reduced power available and thus reduced range. It is just as noticeable on a petrol car especially on lower power compact versions, it won't have too much impact on gas guzzling engines since they are already inefficient and usually more powerful so it is less noticeable, though the added consumption will be more of course.
SoftTalker 4y ago
Presuming that the AC condensor gets airflow from the car moving through the air, it is going to be more efficient if the car is moving faster. However after a point, the air resistance will be hurting range more than anything.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
Kona EV has a page on power consumption, which at 30C ambient temperature and a long drive said I used about 4% on AC. Same amount goes to "electronics" which I find surprising.
rasz 4y ago
didnt you read the scamvertis^^^article? “There’s a huge opportunity in electric vehicles (EVs) and particularly electric buses because integration of our dehumidifiers in their air conditioning systems can extend their driving ranges by up to 75 percent,” said Matt Jore, CEO of Montana Technologies. __extend their driving ranges by up to 75 percent__

jonnycomputer 4y ago

I'm not qualified either, however, we can see from [1] that in southern states summer energy use jumps like crazy--almost all because of AC--peaking when solar production drops to about half around 6pm [2]. Given that humidity affects both the efficiency of AC, and personal comfort (sometimes I run the AC just to dehumidify), and the fact that it's only going to get hotter with GW, and more humid (because warmer air can hold more water), targeting AC efficiency is a BFD. I posted to here because (a) government lab, so has some credibility, and (b) getting feedback from the HN community who might have informed opinions about it. [1] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36692 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36692 [2] https://jrenewables.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40807-018-0054-3/figures/5 https://jrenewables.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40807...

dpierce9 4y ago
Your second citation does not show AC peaking at 6, it shows Solar and Wind use averages over time of day. I don’t know when AC use peaks but total use tends to peak before 6PM while residential use peaks in the morning and evening [1]. Solar does fall off around then and rather suddenly for any given longitude. But what you see with the duck curve (slouching midday prices with a 6PM peak) in California is reduced grid demand. Grid demand is not the same as energy use because of behind the meter generation (e.g., rooftop solar). The duck curve shape is caused by replacement energy use from solar not reduced energy use. [1] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  Thank you. My second citation was to show that solar availability in summer drops by about 6. My assertion about peak AC was based on your citation. Actually, I thought that I had linked to it in my post. My intention was to link to the other two and that one; somehow that got lost; a case of too many tabs, maybe.

vel0city 4y ago

I recently got back from a few hundred mile road trip in >100F temperatures in an EV with decently high (40%+) humidity. Climate was <5% of the energy usage as reported by the car. Even when driving around town in 114F weather, its rarely been >15% of my overall energy usage.