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It is not bigotry. It is separation of Church(religion)and State. It is the corner stone of modern democracy and our modern western legal systems. Edited to ad
by jelliclesfarm 4y ago
It is not bigotry. It is separation of Church(religion)and State. It is the corner stone of modern democracy and our modern western legal systems.
Edited to add: I think France is doubling down on just one religion that is a minority with an violent history in modern France. Sharia law is problematic for the rest of the world. France cannot abide by public floggings or fatwas issues by religious leaders against its own citizenry.
I am curious…there are dozens of countries that are Islamic states and republics where the preferred religious aspects of Islam can be practiced including those that are unacceptable to the rest of the world. Shouldn’t they have an open door policy and offer citizenship for all practicing Muslims? They won’t be a minority anymore. Israel does this. India should probably do it too but likely not possible. Islam has already many established Islamic states where Muslims can live without any religious discrimination.
Democracy demands separation of Church/Religion and State. Islam is incompatible with democracy but has a right to exist. So the solution is for Islamic countries to unroll the red carpet to welcome any and all practicing Muslims.
I remember watching a documentary clip about a Syrian refugee in Sweden who has two wives and multiple children. He was joking about a third wife(I hope he was only joking!) and all the Swedes had a good laugh.
It was actually a heart warming moment because it was this western country that recognized and supported each woman as an individual and paid for her and her children even if it didn’t recognize his multiple Islamic marriages. Perhaps that’s why refugees choose Europe over some 53 officially Islamic countries.
France being French and not Scandinavian simply takes a dim view of non-conformity. National and linguistic identify is the grand unifier and religion will always take a back seat. They are justifiably proud of the French state. They were brutal in erasing even their own linguistic heritage.
Most people in the south of France don’t have a living memory of speaking or knowing their language. Occitan still lives but has no official status in France. If they could sacrifice their own language for being French, why would they accept foreign religious laws? They would very much balk at the idea of being lumped with the rest of the west. The Revolt of 1772 was called the Bloodless Revolt. The French invented The Guillotine.
There seems to be a short memory of the history of France. A more modern history has been summed up by Flanders and Swann in “All Gall” : https://youtu.be/RE88qe67TlA https://youtu.be/RE88qe67TlA
[..]This old man he played FOUR;
Choose de Gaulle or civil war!
Come back President, govern by decree!
Referendum: Oui! Oui! Oui!
This old man he played FIVE,
'France is safe, I'm still alive.′
Plastiques, Pompidou, sing the Marseillaise:
ALGERIE N′EST PAS FRANCAISE![..]
But ..on a more serious note..going back to the Algerian War: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War
[..]In 1834, Algeria became a French military colony. It was declared by the Constitution of 1848 to be an integral part of France and was divided into three departments: Alger, Oran and Constantine. Many French and other Europeans (Spanish, Italians, Maltese and others) later settled in Algeria.
Under the Second Empire (1852–1871), the Code de l'indigénat (Indigenous Code) was implemented by the sénatus-consulte of 14 July 1865. It allowed Muslims to apply for full French citizenship, a measure that few took since it involved renouncing the right to be governed by sharia law in personal matters and was widely considered to be apostasy. Its first article stipulated:
The indigenous Muslim is French; however, he will continue to be subjected to Muslim law. He may be admitted to serve in the army (armée de terre) and the navy (armée de mer). He may be called to functions and civil employment in Algeria. He may, on his demand, be admitted to enjoy the rights of a French citizen; in this case, he is subjected to the political and civil laws of France.[47]
Prior to 1870, fewer than 200 demands were registered by Muslims and 152 by Jewish Algerians.[48] The 1865 decree was then modified by the 1870 Crémieux Decree, which granted French nationality to Jews living in one of the three Algerian departments. In 1881, the Code de l'Indigénat made the discrimination official by creating specific penalties for indigènes and organising the seizure or appropriation of their lands.[48]
After World War II, equality of rights was proclaimed by the ordonnance of 7 March 1944 and later confirmed by the loi Lamine Guèye of 7 May 1946, which granted French citizenship to all subjects of France's territories and overseas departments, and by the 1946 Constitution. The Law of 20 September 1947 granted French citizenship to all Algerian subjects, who were not required to renounce their Muslim personal status.[49][dubious – discuss]
Algeria was unique to France because unlike all other overseas possessions acquired by France during the 19th century, Algeria was considered and legally classified to be an integral part of France.[..]
There is a LOT of history here that you seem to have simply glossed over or perhaps simply unaware. By contrast, the conquerors of religious wars did not grand citizenship. They made them slaves. Democracy isn’t perfect but is worth defending at this point.
A monarchy or dictatorship might be preferable to some but people seem to be fleeing them or rejecting them for various and multitude of reasons.
- elchangri 4y agoMaybe you missed the part where the borders of virtually every muslim country were drawn by the west? The idea that “everyone should go back to their homeland” is laughable coming from the west… What the hell were they doing for centuries on foreign land? Ruining entire civilizations, decimating their peoples, pillaging their lands? Sending them back to the stone age? To then be offended at home by a headscarf? Sure, if you’re Shia you could go to Lebanon, Irak, Iran… or, you could go somewhere safe.
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoSorry. I did miss the point. What is it?
- elchangri 4y agoThe point is none of what you brought forward supports any of your points
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoAhh. Ok. I was speaking that as a person of faith, my faith is more important than fighting politics of the majority. I walk away because the space and freedom to practice my faith is more important than anything else. If democracy/secularism is the prime directive(here: France)is hostile to my daily life, then that’s a problem. It is a good thing that there are 53 countries that have declared themselves to uphold Islamic faith as their prime directive where personal faith based issues can be protected. Why isn’t this a good thing?? [..]"France is an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic, guaranteeing that all citizens regardless of their origin, race or religion are treated as equals before the law and respecting all religious beliefs" states the Constitution of 1958.[..]
- elchangri 4y agoYou keep throwing that number around like you didn’t read my first comment. If the west hadn’t destroyed/pillaged mena region things would be different. In the meantime, def a smart move for most muslims to go to the west and impose themselves. Life is better there, the place is super rich thanks to looted resources and kleptocratic foreign policy. Btw the west fertility rate is unsustainable. Someone’s gotta pay for those taxes! You should be happy