6 ms·

This is not a "bug" or an "issue", it is a matter of taste. Some users prefer search, others prefer a simpler "jump to file" function. The maintainers have deci

by fsh 4y ago

This is not a "bug" or an "issue", it is a matter of taste. Some users prefer search, others prefer a simpler "jump to file" function. The maintainers have decided to implement the former. Arrogant comments like this really make me wonder why people are still putting work into open-source projects.

elcritch 4y ago
The newer issue proposes to provide both methods, similar to windows. The “bug” seems to be that the maintainers prefer one style and refuse to let others add the alternative. That would jibe with what I’ve read about other anti-user attitudes in Gnome.
- bandrami 4y ago
  This is a project that officially says things like "unless it's an accessibility issue users shouldn't be selecting system fonts" and "why are we even talking about allowing themes?"
- Crysstalis 4y ago
  Adding more and more confusing options is generally what is seen as being anti-user. If you really care about this, it is trivial to use a different file manager with GNOME. It is not going to be useful to keep insisting that designers capitulate to a set of demands, after years of them saying that it conflicts with the stated goals of the system.
HeckFeck 4y ago
> a matter of taste Shouldn't that then be left to user choice? The attitude that there's only one true way to do things and that's the developers' way is what put me off Gnome.
- Crysstalis 4y ago
  No, see this twitter thread for what happens when you leave everything to user choice: https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 In general, it is better to leave nothing to user choice, if you can get away with it. By using any developer's software, you are conceding that their way is the correct way to do things, otherwise why waste your time with that software? There is no software in existence that is able to do every possible thing that anyone would ever want to do.
  - HeckFeck 4y ago
    Hard disagree. And no one is arguing that _everything_ should be user choice, but there is certainly a meaningful accommodation that makes power users and tinkerers happy. We've had it more in the past and still have it with some software in the present. I'd argue this friendliness and synergy with the user is always the case in the most powerful and beloved software. It just feels smug and talked-down when someone comes along and sands over a reasonable amount of control and complexity that previously existed. I hate having my workflow disrupted because I like getting work done. Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Etc etc. The computer is like anything else I own and the more it responds to my wishes, the better. Small tweaks left to my discretion remind me of that, losing control piecemeal provokes disquietude. If it doesn't accommodate my needs then it feels less mine and for that reason I reject software that restricts my choices.
    - Crysstalis 4y ago
      I do not understand what you are disagreeing with. Not every project is aimed at power users and tinkerers. You seem to be suggesting that they all should be, that is not realistic. If you feel talked down to, please consider that you may not be the target of discussion. >Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Those could be nice to have. I can say I do not actually need any of those things when I use my computer to write documents in a word processor. Do you see where I am going with this? Any "control" you want to have is completely up to what you are trying to do, if all I am trying to do is write my novel then all those other things can get in the way.
  - ayushnix 4y ago
    > In general, it is better to leave nothing to user choice, if you can get away with it. I'm glad there are people out there that do not follow this user-is-an-idiot philosophy and created essential software like Emacs, Vim, ranger file manager, and i3wm.
    - 4y ago
pessimizer 4y ago
> Arrogant comments like this really make me wonder why people are still putting work into open-source projects. If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. edit: Trying to guilt-trip people into not having strong opinions is not going to accomplish anything, though.
- Crysstalis 4y ago
  >If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. Please stop, this is gatekeeping. What is even the point of open source if we are going to insist that only projects that reach a certain "proportion of praise" are allowed to exist? That would mean that only the projects that were already popular will succeed, and everything else will fail.
j-james 4y ago
It's a bug when it stalls out your computer for 2-3 seconds because the file picker is doing a recursive search through all of your files. Thankfully, patches that fix this (along with some other bugs and anti-features) are actively maintained by community members, despite being ignored by the GNOME project. https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic

by fsh 4y ago

elcritch 4y ago

The newer issue proposes to provide both methods, similar to windows. The “bug” seems to be that the maintainers prefer one style and refuse to let others add the alternative. That would jibe with what I’ve read about other anti-user attitudes in Gnome.

bandrami 4y ago
This is a project that officially says things like "unless it's an accessibility issue users shouldn't be selecting system fonts" and "why are we even talking about allowing themes?"
Crysstalis 4y ago
Adding more and more confusing options is generally what is seen as being anti-user. If you really care about this, it is trivial to use a different file manager with GNOME. It is not going to be useful to keep insisting that designers capitulate to a set of demands, after years of them saying that it conflicts with the stated goals of the system.

HeckFeck 4y ago

> a matter of taste Shouldn't that then be left to user choice? The attitude that there's only one true way to do things and that's the developers' way is what put me off Gnome.

Crysstalis 4y ago
No, see this twitter thread for what happens when you leave everything to user choice: https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 In general, it is better to leave nothing to user choice, if you can get away with it. By using any developer's software, you are conceding that their way is the correct way to do things, otherwise why waste your time with that software? There is no software in existence that is able to do every possible thing that anyone would ever want to do.
- HeckFeck 4y ago
  Hard disagree. And no one is arguing that _everything_ should be user choice, but there is certainly a meaningful accommodation that makes power users and tinkerers happy. We've had it more in the past and still have it with some software in the present. I'd argue this friendliness and synergy with the user is always the case in the most powerful and beloved software. It just feels smug and talked-down when someone comes along and sands over a reasonable amount of control and complexity that previously existed. I hate having my workflow disrupted because I like getting work done. Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Etc etc. The computer is like anything else I own and the more it responds to my wishes, the better. Small tweaks left to my discretion remind me of that, losing control piecemeal provokes disquietude. If it doesn't accommodate my needs then it feels less mine and for that reason I reject software that restricts my choices.
  - Crysstalis 4y ago
    I do not understand what you are disagreeing with. Not every project is aimed at power users and tinkerers. You seem to be suggesting that they all should be, that is not realistic. If you feel talked down to, please consider that you may not be the target of discussion. >Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Those could be nice to have. I can say I do not actually need any of those things when I use my computer to write documents in a word processor. Do you see where I am going with this? Any "control" you want to have is completely up to what you are trying to do, if all I am trying to do is write my novel then all those other things can get in the way.
- ayushnix 4y ago
  > In general, it is better to leave nothing to user choice, if you can get away with it. I'm glad there are people out there that do not follow this user-is-an-idiot philosophy and created essential software like Emacs, Vim, ranger file manager, and i3wm.
  - 4y ago

pessimizer 4y ago

> Arrogant comments like this really make me wonder why people are still putting work into open-source projects. If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. edit: Trying to guilt-trip people into not having strong opinions is not going to accomplish anything, though.

Crysstalis 4y ago
>If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. Please stop, this is gatekeeping. What is even the point of open source if we are going to insist that only projects that reach a certain "proportion of praise" are allowed to exist? That would mean that only the projects that were already popular will succeed, and everything else will fail.

j-james 4y ago

It's a bug when it stalls out your computer for 2-3 seconds because the file picker is doing a recursive search through all of your files. Thankfully, patches that fix this (along with some other bugs and anti-features) are actively maintained by community members, despite being ignored by the GNOME project. https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic