5 ms·

25 years since Gnome was created. 10 years since the type-ahead find bug was opened on Bugzilla: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681871 https://bugz

by jl6 4y ago

25 years since Gnome was created. 10 years since the type-ahead find bug was opened on Bugzilla: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681871 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681871 (bug now moved to Gitlab: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/-/issues/1157 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/-/issues/1157) 7 years since a patch was provided to fix the issue. Still waiting. Note that this was a feature that Gnome used to have, but removed. Windows Explorer and macOS Finder both have the feature too.

fsh 4y ago
This is not a "bug" or an "issue", it is a matter of taste. Some users prefer search, others prefer a simpler "jump to file" function. The maintainers have decided to implement the former. Arrogant comments like this really make me wonder why people are still putting work into open-source projects.
- elcritch 4y ago
  The newer issue proposes to provide both methods, similar to windows. The “bug” seems to be that the maintainers prefer one style and refuse to let others add the alternative. That would jibe with what I’ve read about other anti-user attitudes in Gnome.
  - bandrami 4y ago
    This is a project that officially says things like "unless it's an accessibility issue users shouldn't be selecting system fonts" and "why are we even talking about allowing themes?"
  - Crysstalis 4y ago
    Adding more and more confusing options is generally what is seen as being anti-user. If you really care about this, it is trivial to use a different file manager with GNOME. It is not going to be useful to keep insisting that designers capitulate to a set of demands, after years of them saying that it conflicts with the stated goals of the system.
- HeckFeck 4y ago
  > a matter of taste Shouldn't that then be left to user choice? The attitude that there's only one true way to do things and that's the developers' way is what put me off Gnome.
  - Crysstalis 4y ago
    No, see this twitter thread for what happens when you leave everything to user choice: https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 In general, it is better to leave nothing to user choice, if you can get away with it. By using any developer's software, you are conceding that their way is the correct way to do things, otherwise why waste your time with that software? There is no software in existence that is able to do every possible thing that anyone would ever want to do.
    - HeckFeck 4y ago
      Hard disagree. And no one is arguing that _everything_ should be user choice, but there is certainly a meaningful accommodation that makes power users and tinkerers happy. We've had it more in the past and still have it with some software in the present. I'd argue this friendliness and synergy with the user is always the case in the most powerful and beloved software. It just feels smug and talked-down when someone comes along and sands over a reasonable amount of control and complexity that previously existed. I hate having my workflow disrupted because I like getting work done. Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Etc etc. The computer is like anything else I own and the more it responds to my wishes, the better. Small tweaks left to my discretion remind me of that, losing control piecemeal provokes disquietude. If it doesn't accommodate my needs then it feels less mine and for that reason I reject software that restricts my choices.
      - Crysstalis 4y ago
        I do not understand what you are disagreeing with. Not every project is aimed at power users and tinkerers. You seem to be suggesting that they all should be, that is not realistic. If you feel talked down to, please consider that you may not be the target of discussion. >Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Those could be nice to have. I can say I do not actually need any of those things when I use my computer to write documents in a word processor. Do you see where I am going with this? Any "control" you want to have is completely up to what you are trying to do, if all I am trying to do is write my novel then all those other things can get in the way.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Arrogant comments like this really make me wonder why people are still putting work into open-source projects. If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. edit: Trying to guilt-trip people into not having strong opinions is not going to accomplish anything, though.
  - Crysstalis 4y ago
    >If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. Please stop, this is gatekeeping. What is even the point of open source if we are going to insist that only projects that reach a certain "proportion of praise" are allowed to exist? That would mean that only the projects that were already popular will succeed, and everything else will fail.
- j-james 4y ago
  It's a bug when it stalls out your computer for 2-3 seconds because the file picker is doing a recursive search through all of your files. Thankfully, patches that fix this (along with some other bugs and anti-features) are actively maintained by community members, despite being ignored by the GNOME project. https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic
hendi_ 4y ago
That's when and why I left the project (former contributer)
andrea76 4y ago
This is why I abandoned GNOME in favor on the other major OS DE.
- HeckFeck 4y ago
  Agreed, but unfortunately we're still stuck with the problem in the GTK file picker, which is used everywhere.
kzrdude 4y ago
You can use other file managers even in a gnome environment. For example, use Nemo.
- jl6 4y ago
  Don’t worry, I switched to XFCE and Thunar years ago.
  - asoneth 4y ago
    If that is the case I am curious what motivates you to chime in on news about Gnome then? Gnome threads seem to bring out a lot of anti-Gnome commenters and I've never quite understood why so many people who dislike Gnome are nevertheless compelled to continue to talk about it.
    - jl6 4y ago
      Reasons: 1) It's not just Gnome that's affected, it's also the gtk3 FileChooserDialog, which is used by many applications (e.g. Firefox), independent of desktop environment. 2) I do actually want Gnome to succeed because I think it's healthy for the wider free software ecosystem to have a selection of high quality desktop environments available. I want to be able to recommend mainstream Linux distributions to friends without them getting tripped up by things that don't work the way they expect. I think the devs (or the HIG architects) have blundered in prioritising search over find and I want to see it corrected. I am remaining engaged by adding my voice to the growing chorus. If I disliked Gnome I'd walk away and let it stay broken.
      - asoneth 4y ago
        I appreciate that you still care about getting these specific issues fixed, and I also hope they fix them. It still feels a little odd to me though, because the initial blog post is an analysis of where Gnome's committers come from. I'm not sure how these bugs tie into that. Do you make a comment to draw attention to these issues whenever the terms "Gnome" or "GTK" show up in a thread? If so that seems like a lot of dedication to a desktop environment you don't even use.

by jl6 4y ago

fsh 4y ago

This is not a "bug" or an "issue", it is a matter of taste. Some users prefer search, others prefer a simpler "jump to file" function. The maintainers have decided to implement the former. Arrogant comments like this really make me wonder why people are still putting work into open-source projects.

elcritch 4y ago
The newer issue proposes to provide both methods, similar to windows. The “bug” seems to be that the maintainers prefer one style and refuse to let others add the alternative. That would jibe with what I’ve read about other anti-user attitudes in Gnome.
- bandrami 4y ago
  This is a project that officially says things like "unless it's an accessibility issue users shouldn't be selecting system fonts" and "why are we even talking about allowing themes?"
- Crysstalis 4y ago
  Adding more and more confusing options is generally what is seen as being anti-user. If you really care about this, it is trivial to use a different file manager with GNOME. It is not going to be useful to keep insisting that designers capitulate to a set of demands, after years of them saying that it conflicts with the stated goals of the system.
HeckFeck 4y ago
> a matter of taste Shouldn't that then be left to user choice? The attitude that there's only one true way to do things and that's the developers' way is what put me off Gnome.
- Crysstalis 4y ago
  No, see this twitter thread for what happens when you leave everything to user choice: https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 https://twitter.com/jasonlong/status/1549857059495084032 In general, it is better to leave nothing to user choice, if you can get away with it. By using any developer's software, you are conceding that their way is the correct way to do things, otherwise why waste your time with that software? There is no software in existence that is able to do every possible thing that anyone would ever want to do.
  - HeckFeck 4y ago
    Hard disagree. And no one is arguing that _everything_ should be user choice, but there is certainly a meaningful accommodation that makes power users and tinkerers happy. We've had it more in the past and still have it with some software in the present. I'd argue this friendliness and synergy with the user is always the case in the most powerful and beloved software. It just feels smug and talked-down when someone comes along and sands over a reasonable amount of control and complexity that previously existed. I hate having my workflow disrupted because I like getting work done. Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Etc etc. The computer is like anything else I own and the more it responds to my wishes, the better. Small tweaks left to my discretion remind me of that, losing control piecemeal provokes disquietude. If it doesn't accommodate my needs then it feels less mine and for that reason I reject software that restricts my choices.
    - Crysstalis 4y ago
      I do not understand what you are disagreeing with. Not every project is aimed at power users and tinkerers. You seem to be suggesting that they all should be, that is not realistic. If you feel talked down to, please consider that you may not be the target of discussion. >Would you argue that we should have no shell aliases? No BIOS and boot order? No desktop wallpaper? No ability to set homepages in the web browser? Those could be nice to have. I can say I do not actually need any of those things when I use my computer to write documents in a word processor. Do you see where I am going with this? Any "control" you want to have is completely up to what you are trying to do, if all I am trying to do is write my novel then all those other things can get in the way.
pessimizer 4y ago
> Arrogant comments like this really make me wonder why people are still putting work into open-source projects. If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. edit: Trying to guilt-trip people into not having strong opinions is not going to accomplish anything, though.
- Crysstalis 4y ago
  >If they hate it, they can stop. Work on a project that has a higher proportion of praise if they need to. Work on proprietary stuff. Please stop, this is gatekeeping. What is even the point of open source if we are going to insist that only projects that reach a certain "proportion of praise" are allowed to exist? That would mean that only the projects that were already popular will succeed, and everything else will fail.
j-james 4y ago
It's a bug when it stalls out your computer for 2-3 seconds because the file picker is doing a recursive search through all of your files. Thankfully, patches that fix this (along with some other bugs and anti-features) are actively maintained by community members, despite being ignored by the GNOME project. https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic

hendi_ 4y ago

That's when and why I left the project (former contributer)

andrea76 4y ago

This is why I abandoned GNOME in favor on the other major OS DE.

HeckFeck 4y ago
Agreed, but unfortunately we're still stuck with the problem in the GTK file picker, which is used everywhere.

kzrdude 4y ago

You can use other file managers even in a gnome environment. For example, use Nemo.

jl6 4y ago
Don’t worry, I switched to XFCE and Thunar years ago.
- asoneth 4y ago
  If that is the case I am curious what motivates you to chime in on news about Gnome then? Gnome threads seem to bring out a lot of anti-Gnome commenters and I've never quite understood why so many people who dislike Gnome are nevertheless compelled to continue to talk about it.
  - jl6 4y ago
    Reasons: 1) It's not just Gnome that's affected, it's also the gtk3 FileChooserDialog, which is used by many applications (e.g. Firefox), independent of desktop environment. 2) I do actually want Gnome to succeed because I think it's healthy for the wider free software ecosystem to have a selection of high quality desktop environments available. I want to be able to recommend mainstream Linux distributions to friends without them getting tripped up by things that don't work the way they expect. I think the devs (or the HIG architects) have blundered in prioritising search over find and I want to see it corrected. I am remaining engaged by adding my voice to the growing chorus. If I disliked Gnome I'd walk away and let it stay broken.
    - asoneth 4y ago
      I appreciate that you still care about getting these specific issues fixed, and I also hope they fix them. It still feels a little odd to me though, because the initial blog post is an analysis of where Gnome's committers come from. I'm not sure how these bugs tie into that. Do you make a comment to draw attention to these issues whenever the terms "Gnome" or "GTK" show up in a thread? If so that seems like a lot of dedication to a desktop environment you don't even use.