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LTT has certainly helped to force devs to "think" about the usability of the software with regards to "unwashed masses" to put it bluntly. the workflow that an

LTT has certainly helped to force devs to "think" about the usability of the software with regards to "unwashed masses" to put it bluntly. the workflow that an expert is "expected" to know and easily get used to won't cut it for "normies" and that needs improvement. stuff like flatpak has helped greatly to achieve that. Remember, earlier one used to have OS specific binaries, many would only offer token .deb and call it a day. otherwise you had to compile stuff... the steam deck has exposed new people to linux who expect their systems to not break as much... me personally have been running kde neon since 5.12 i think. once had to reinstall it. otherwise its smooth sailing on my dell latitude E7440 laptop. minor quirks, like having to "open in konsole" an appimage instead of just double clicking it and expecting it to work has to be improved. or missing package in krdc in wayland session which i found out a few weeks ago. stuff like HP printer does detect on one machine but printer fails to print. "rendering completed" which on scouring the internet tells me to install HPLIP and even then i got nothing. i think i can get the printer working, maybe. but it would take "time to research and look for fixes", exactly the kind of stuff that could be fixed by usability tests for example. i dont think the "normies" should have to go and scour the internet for drivers and then spend hours learning HOW TO INSTALL drivers without breaking the system, why can't we have nice things? take a look at this. Okular supports various document formats. suppose by default, OXPS isnt supported that one has to download its plugin. Instead of auto downloading the package after asking me "you are trying to open this .oxps in okular which needs a plugin, should i download and install it?" it says "no plugin found" or something to that end. correct information but not helpful. what am i supposed to do next? i am not dissing on any work done by these great people, on the contrary i actively look for bugs and report on all major FOSS software that i daily drive but i have "experience" now, the next person does not. drivers is a pain point. I installed neon last month on a PC that needed to use those cheap wifi dongles. they do provide a linux installer but apparently that broke the system so i am forced to install windows 7 on that machine because it isn't going to be under my supervision

GekkePrutser 4y ago
> LTT has certainly helped to force devs to "think" about the usability of the software with regards to "unwashed masses" to put it bluntly. the workflow that an expert is "expected" to know and easily get used to won't cut it for "normies" and that needs improvement. What's LTT? I don't think you mean Linus tech tips? But I don't think every DE should necessarily appeal to everyone. That's the mistake that macOS makes. I like my OS and DE to be technical and configurable. To pull it a bit more into the extreme end: many people love i3 but it will never be for "normies". Not a fan of flatpak either by the way but I'm not even using KDE on Linux (I use it on FreeBSD) so I'm not bothered by it. > i dont think the "normies" should have to go and scour the internet for drivers and then spend hours learning HOW TO INSTALL drivers without breaking the system, why can't we have nice things? Installing drivers has nothing to do with the Desktop Environment :) But the OS underneath.
- jraph 4y ago
  I think LTT is Linus Tech Tips here. He made a video of him trying Linux for some time and this video was noticed and mentioned at https://pointieststick.com/2021/12/09/what-desktop-linux-needs-to-succeed-in-the-mainstream/ https://pointieststick.com/2021/12/09/what-desktop-linux-nee... I would not think he has had such an impact on devs, though. On the KDE side, it's just that they've been caring about usability for a while and this video is relevant.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Oh it is, I didn't really think he would be relevant to Linux. I never watch him, he's way too much of a showman for me to have any kind of interest in him (and all the product placement is way too obvious and annoying). I'm sure he overinflated any issues for maximum "entertainment". Still, I don't really understand why "Linux for the Mainstream" is such a thing people are hung up about. It will never be mainstream until someone dumps billions of bucks on it to promote it and bundle it with hardware, plain and simple. Just the step of installing another OS is enough to kill it for 95% of users. Even if it was fully automatic. And in the process they'll probably dumb it down beyond recognition so it will be unusable for the people who love it currently. Similar to macOS which has become more and more aimed at the rich consumer that just spends time mucking about on facebook instead of actual "pro" users. I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with Linux aiming for the small subset of users it has now. Why does it have to be huge? The bigger the less tailored to specific needs.
    - jraph 4y ago
      > I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with Linux aiming for the small subset of users it has now. Why does it have to be huge? The bigger the less tailored to specific needs. I'd like to see Linux go more mainstream, because it's free software, and I believe free software is one necessary part of being in control of our computing, and would like everyone to be in control of their computing. It could be anything other than Linux, but that's the most promising path. In this view, good feedback on about to be able to fit mainstream needs is good to take, and I believe it does not necessarily implies worse usability for today's Linux users like you or me. But I agree that having to install it is a barrier and money needs to be spent promoting it. UX wise, it's already quite good. Now about LTT, I think this particular video is fine. About the whole channel, it's mostly entertaining, mostly geared toward gaming, there is no point to try liking it if you don't already. There are good things here and there but there are so many other interesting things to watch or do. SponsorBlock does a very good job of skipping annoyances like product placement on this channel though, I wouldn't bother occasionally watch LTT's videos by curiosity without it.

GekkePrutser 4y ago

> LTT has certainly helped to force devs to "think" about the usability of the software with regards to "unwashed masses" to put it bluntly. the workflow that an expert is "expected" to know and easily get used to won't cut it for "normies" and that needs improvement. What's LTT? I don't think you mean Linus tech tips? But I don't think every DE should necessarily appeal to everyone. That's the mistake that macOS makes. I like my OS and DE to be technical and configurable. To pull it a bit more into the extreme end: many people love i3 but it will never be for "normies". Not a fan of flatpak either by the way but I'm not even using KDE on Linux (I use it on FreeBSD) so I'm not bothered by it. > i dont think the "normies" should have to go and scour the internet for drivers and then spend hours learning HOW TO INSTALL drivers without breaking the system, why can't we have nice things? Installing drivers has nothing to do with the Desktop Environment :) But the OS underneath.

jraph 4y ago
I think LTT is Linus Tech Tips here. He made a video of him trying Linux for some time and this video was noticed and mentioned at https://pointieststick.com/2021/12/09/what-desktop-linux-needs-to-succeed-in-the-mainstream/ https://pointieststick.com/2021/12/09/what-desktop-linux-nee... I would not think he has had such an impact on devs, though. On the KDE side, it's just that they've been caring about usability for a while and this video is relevant.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Oh it is, I didn't really think he would be relevant to Linux. I never watch him, he's way too much of a showman for me to have any kind of interest in him (and all the product placement is way too obvious and annoying). I'm sure he overinflated any issues for maximum "entertainment". Still, I don't really understand why "Linux for the Mainstream" is such a thing people are hung up about. It will never be mainstream until someone dumps billions of bucks on it to promote it and bundle it with hardware, plain and simple. Just the step of installing another OS is enough to kill it for 95% of users. Even if it was fully automatic. And in the process they'll probably dumb it down beyond recognition so it will be unusable for the people who love it currently. Similar to macOS which has become more and more aimed at the rich consumer that just spends time mucking about on facebook instead of actual "pro" users. I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with Linux aiming for the small subset of users it has now. Why does it have to be huge? The bigger the less tailored to specific needs.
  - jraph 4y ago
    > I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with Linux aiming for the small subset of users it has now. Why does it have to be huge? The bigger the less tailored to specific needs. I'd like to see Linux go more mainstream, because it's free software, and I believe free software is one necessary part of being in control of our computing, and would like everyone to be in control of their computing. It could be anything other than Linux, but that's the most promising path. In this view, good feedback on about to be able to fit mainstream needs is good to take, and I believe it does not necessarily implies worse usability for today's Linux users like you or me. But I agree that having to install it is a barrier and money needs to be spent promoting it. UX wise, it's already quite good. Now about LTT, I think this particular video is fine. About the whole channel, it's mostly entertaining, mostly geared toward gaming, there is no point to try liking it if you don't already. There are good things here and there but there are so many other interesting things to watch or do. SponsorBlock does a very good job of skipping annoyances like product placement on this channel though, I wouldn't bother occasionally watch LTT's videos by curiosity without it.