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Securalism is the modern religion of France - it is key part of modern French identity. France was one of the few modern examples of a successful refactor of th

Securalism is the modern religion of France - it is key part of modern French identity. France was one of the few modern examples of a successful refactor of the culture of an entire society - wholesale out with the old, in with the new - a true 'Year Zero' style revolution, not some sort of disguised compromise with the ancien regime. It is interesting to see how this militantly secular France handles the challenge posed by conspicuous religious adherency, especially from Islam.

biorach 4y ago
> France was one of the few modern examples of a successful refactor of the culture of an entire society - wholesale out with the old, in with the new - a true 'Year Zero' style revolution, not some sort of disguised compromise with the ancien regime. That's highly inaccurate. Yes the Revolution started out with those aims but descended into bloody factionalism, then came Napoleon, war and defeat and the Bourbon Restoration. The secularism of modern France has more immediate roots in the complex politics of the late 19th century.
- hunglee2 4y ago
  yes you're right, my comment was a gross over simplification. The revolution triggered multi-decadal chaos, maybe not resolved until after WW2, perhaps not even until after De Gaulle. However, all revolutions tend to be this way - it is through the oscillating tension that the old order is eventually destroyed or transformed
wizwit999 4y ago
The hypocrisy is pretty clear though, https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/french-city-suspends-secularism-for-catholic-mass-derided-as-hypocritical-42388 https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/french-city-suspends-secul..., here's a city 'suspending laicite' so officials can attend a public Catholic procession: https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/orleans-suspend-officiellement-la-laicite-lors-des-fetes-de-jeanne-d-arc-1607683364 https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/orleans-suspend-offi... .
- hunglee2 4y ago
  yes, quite right. Not all religions treated the same, especially not those deemed seen as 'foreign'
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  They can attend those processions without problems but they have to remain neutral. The issue here is that they want to take part in communion, which as a religious act is obviously not allowed. I'm sure this sort of things used to happen without issues in the past. So did for instance traditional nativity scenes in town halls in the South. But recently things have taken a stricter (extreme?) turn partly not to be seen to have an issue with a religion in particular, although of course the reality is that it is undeed a religion in particular (or at least the way some people practice it) that is problematic.
the_omegist 4y ago
Except no : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Supreme_Being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Supreme_Being There was an attempt to replace the old religion by a new one. And even without such an "open" attempt, another religion would have emerged. People need to believe in something. Nowadays the new religions are "freedom", "democracy" or "equality"...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

biorach 4y ago

> France was one of the few modern examples of a successful refactor of the culture of an entire society - wholesale out with the old, in with the new - a true 'Year Zero' style revolution, not some sort of disguised compromise with the ancien regime. That's highly inaccurate. Yes the Revolution started out with those aims but descended into bloody factionalism, then came Napoleon, war and defeat and the Bourbon Restoration. The secularism of modern France has more immediate roots in the complex politics of the late 19th century.

hunglee2 4y ago
yes you're right, my comment was a gross over simplification. The revolution triggered multi-decadal chaos, maybe not resolved until after WW2, perhaps not even until after De Gaulle. However, all revolutions tend to be this way - it is through the oscillating tension that the old order is eventually destroyed or transformed

wizwit999 4y ago

The hypocrisy is pretty clear though, https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/french-city-suspends-secularism-for-catholic-mass-derided-as-hypocritical-42388 https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/french-city-suspends-secul..., here's a city 'suspending laicite' so officials can attend a public Catholic procession: https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/orleans-suspend-officiellement-la-laicite-lors-des-fetes-de-jeanne-d-arc-1607683364 https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/orleans-suspend-offi... .

hunglee2 4y ago
yes, quite right. Not all religions treated the same, especially not those deemed seen as 'foreign'
mytailorisrich 4y ago
They can attend those processions without problems but they have to remain neutral. The issue here is that they want to take part in communion, which as a religious act is obviously not allowed. I'm sure this sort of things used to happen without issues in the past. So did for instance traditional nativity scenes in town halls in the South. But recently things have taken a stricter (extreme?) turn partly not to be seen to have an issue with a religion in particular, although of course the reality is that it is undeed a religion in particular (or at least the way some people practice it) that is problematic.

the_omegist 4y ago

Except no : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Supreme_Being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Supreme_Being There was an attempt to replace the old religion by a new one. And even without such an "open" attempt, another religion would have emerged. People need to believe in something. Nowadays the new religions are "freedom", "democracy" or "equality"...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]