4 ms·

> Ok so now you've changed your argument yet again. Like I said, you are arguing in bad faith and quibbling over an honest mistake when I explained to you exac

> Ok so now you've changed your argument yet again. Like I said, you are arguing in bad faith and quibbling over an honest mistake when I explained to you exactly why you're wrong. I've presented the evidence and you refuse to acknowledge it, so there's no more to discuss. > Like, do you think that someone who doesn't get into their stretch school is unaffected just because they're stretch is a state university and not Harvard Even if the scenario you're proposing existed (the acceptance rate at these state schools is well over 50%), affirmative action still wouldn't affect white people. Whites, for example, are admitted to Harvard at around the same rate that they are to the University of Washington Tacoma [1] [2] or to SUNY Stony Brook [3]. So regardless of whether you're talking about some random state school or Harvard, and regardless of whether affirmative action is allowed (as it is at Harvard and Stony Brook) or not allowed (UW), white people are admitted at around the same rate. In fact, in some state schools in the deep South, whites make up over 60% of admitted students, despite affirmative action being allowed there. That is by definition, unaffected by affirmative action. > We live in a society, and I try to support policies that will be good for society, not just ones that will be directly beneficial to me Affirmative action is bad for society. It is racist and reduces the competitiveness of the nation as a whole. It violates the Civil Rights Act and will hopefully be illegal come the next SCOTUS session. It makes some white liberals such as yourself feel better about yourselves, that's it. The fact that you believe you know what's "good for society" and no one else (especially not minorities! [4]) is exactly the sort of white supremacy that progressives nowadays embody. [1] https://studentdata.washington.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/04/Quick_Stats_Tacoma_Spring_2022.pdf https://studentdata.washington.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/... [2] https://blog.collegevine.com/harvard-university-diversity-statistics/ https://blog.collegevine.com/harvard-university-diversity-st... [3] https://www.stonybrook.edu/commcms/irpe/fact_book/data_and_reports/_files/enrollment/FallbyMultiRaceEthnicity.pdf https://www.stonybrook.edu/commcms/irpe/fact_book/data_and_r... [4] https://www.vox.com/2019/5/9/18538216/diversity-workplace-pew-poll https://www.vox.com/2019/5/9/18538216/diversity-workplace-pe...

joshuamorton 4y ago
> Even if the scenario you're proposing existed (the acceptance rate at these state schools is well over 50%), affirmative action still wouldn't affect white people. Whites, for example, are admitted to Harvard at around the same rate that they are to the University of Washington Tacoma [1] [2] or to SUNY Stony Brook [3]. You've cherrypicked examples. Look at UNC Chapel Hill or Georgia Tech or Duke or Tulane or Emory (granted not all are State schools). These schools have acceptance rates of less than 25%, and some lower than 10% and, and relatively small Asian populations, with white populations as high as 65% and in some cases more Black than Asian students. You're claiming that none of them engage in race-aware, holistic admissions processes, despite contrary statements on all of their undergraduate admissions websites? > In fact, in some state schools in the deep South, whites make up over 60% of admitted students, despite affirmative action being allowed there. That is by definition, unaffected by affirmative action. Wait what? Are you claiming that being overrepresented compared to the baseline population is evidence that a group is unaffected by affirmative action? If so than Asian students, who are overrepresented compared to population percentages at every school you've mentioned, are unaffected by affirmative action. > The fact that you believe you know what's "good for society" I'm confused, are you saying I should support policies I think are bad for society, or are you saying that it is white supremacy for me to have opinions that differ from yours?
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  > You've cherrypicked examples. Look at UNC Chapel Hill or Georgia Tech or Duke (acceptance rates of 25% or less, small Asian populations. I see higher white populations at those schools than the ones I cited, which would support my point that affirmative action does not disadvantage whites, since all 3 schools you mentioned use affirmative action yet they have higher white populations than schools which do not use affirmative action. > You're claiming that none of them engage in race-aware, holistic admissions processes, despite contrary statements on all of their undergraduate admissions websites? I made no such claim. In fact, the stats you've shown would further prove my point that whites are not disadvantaged by affirmative action, and that Asians are. > Are you claiming that being overrepresented compared to the baseline population is evidence that a group is unaffected by affirmative action When did I say overrepresented? I merely said the percentage of whites is the same between schools which do and do not use affirmative action, in both schools which are prestigious and those which are not. You cannot say the same is true for Asians. > are unaffected by affirmative action Except the evidence is overwhelming that Asians have to have higher SAT scores, stronger extracurriculars, and stronger profiles to be admitted compared to both whites and other minorities. Not only that, but Asians who received identical personality scores as whites/blacks from alumni interviewers were rated lower by Harvard admissions staff, in order to disadvantage Asians. See: SFFA vs. Harvard. Try to read from a source that isn't liberal this time around. Your claim that all races must have equal representation to their proportion of the population ignores the impact of culture on outcomes. Why do black people dominate athletics? Maybe ask yourself if the NBA should have affirmative action. > You literally just claimed to know what's good for society No, I claimed affirmative action was illegal under the Civil Rights Act and racist. The difference here is that you are a white person, who is not affected by affirmative action, mandating that minorities, who are negatively affected by affirmative action, adhere to it. And you dismiss minorities' opinions as invalid and dismiss the fact that a majority of minorities say they don't want race to be taken into account in the workplace (see the Vox link in my previous comment). THAT is white supremacy: believing your own opinions about minorities, as a white person, while ignoring those same minorities telling you they don't want what you're preaching.
  - joshuamorton 4y ago

joshuamorton 4y ago

> Even if the scenario you're proposing existed (the acceptance rate at these state schools is well over 50%), affirmative action still wouldn't affect white people. Whites, for example, are admitted to Harvard at around the same rate that they are to the University of Washington Tacoma [1] [2] or to SUNY Stony Brook [3]. You've cherrypicked examples. Look at UNC Chapel Hill or Georgia Tech or Duke or Tulane or Emory (granted not all are State schools). These schools have acceptance rates of less than 25%, and some lower than 10% and, and relatively small Asian populations, with white populations as high as 65% and in some cases more Black than Asian students. You're claiming that none of them engage in race-aware, holistic admissions processes, despite contrary statements on all of their undergraduate admissions websites? > In fact, in some state schools in the deep South, whites make up over 60% of admitted students, despite affirmative action being allowed there. That is by definition, unaffected by affirmative action. Wait what? Are you claiming that being overrepresented compared to the baseline population is evidence that a group is unaffected by affirmative action? If so than Asian students, who are overrepresented compared to population percentages at every school you've mentioned, are unaffected by affirmative action. > The fact that you believe you know what's "good for society" I'm confused, are you saying I should support policies I think are bad for society, or are you saying that it is white supremacy for me to have opinions that differ from yours?

ceeplusplus 4y ago
> You've cherrypicked examples. Look at UNC Chapel Hill or Georgia Tech or Duke (acceptance rates of 25% or less, small Asian populations. I see higher white populations at those schools than the ones I cited, which would support my point that affirmative action does not disadvantage whites, since all 3 schools you mentioned use affirmative action yet they have higher white populations than schools which do not use affirmative action. > You're claiming that none of them engage in race-aware, holistic admissions processes, despite contrary statements on all of their undergraduate admissions websites? I made no such claim. In fact, the stats you've shown would further prove my point that whites are not disadvantaged by affirmative action, and that Asians are. > Are you claiming that being overrepresented compared to the baseline population is evidence that a group is unaffected by affirmative action When did I say overrepresented? I merely said the percentage of whites is the same between schools which do and do not use affirmative action, in both schools which are prestigious and those which are not. You cannot say the same is true for Asians. > are unaffected by affirmative action Except the evidence is overwhelming that Asians have to have higher SAT scores, stronger extracurriculars, and stronger profiles to be admitted compared to both whites and other minorities. Not only that, but Asians who received identical personality scores as whites/blacks from alumni interviewers were rated lower by Harvard admissions staff, in order to disadvantage Asians. See: SFFA vs. Harvard. Try to read from a source that isn't liberal this time around. Your claim that all races must have equal representation to their proportion of the population ignores the impact of culture on outcomes. Why do black people dominate athletics? Maybe ask yourself if the NBA should have affirmative action. > You literally just claimed to know what's good for society No, I claimed affirmative action was illegal under the Civil Rights Act and racist. The difference here is that you are a white person, who is not affected by affirmative action, mandating that minorities, who are negatively affected by affirmative action, adhere to it. And you dismiss minorities' opinions as invalid and dismiss the fact that a majority of minorities say they don't want race to be taken into account in the workplace (see the Vox link in my previous comment). THAT is white supremacy: believing your own opinions about minorities, as a white person, while ignoring those same minorities telling you they don't want what you're preaching.
- joshuamorton 4y ago