4 ms·

In most of California (served by PG&E) it's really expensive during the day, blisteringly expensive in the evening, and really expensive at night.

WalterBright 4y ago
> really expensive during the day Doesn't really seem to fit with having surplus power.
- sdenton4 4y ago
  PG&E also has to pay for occasionally burning half the state.
- zbrozek 4y ago
  I blame the CPUC for basically everything regarding the crappiness of being a grid customer in California. PG&E is exactly the result you'd expect to get in our regulatory environment. Our regulators rubber stamp every tariff plan the company puts forth, and lets them get a larger profit margin on capex vs opex. So of course the optimal strategy is to run all equipment to failure and replace it with maximally expensive everything as frequently as possible. Torching the state is the business plan.
NavinF 4y ago
Can confirm. Rates are 64% higher than the US average and 100% higher than a lot of states. I wonder what they do with all this money.
- zbrozek 4y ago
  US average kWh is 14.77 cents while PG&E TOU-C starts at 37.460 and goes up to 48.902. So it's worse than you list. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-C.pdf https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...
  - NavinF 4y ago
    Oh wow. Of course I can’t login to PG&E and confirm that because “Your Account is currently unavailable due to planned maintenance”. Bunch of thieves. Edit: $385.06/1033kW = $0.37/kWh A couple of servers really screws over the electric bill.
  - walrus01 4y ago
    At that price of 37.4 cente per kWh and up I'm quite serious when I say that if I suddenly found myself owning a California house, I'd buy enough solar to meet my load needs, install a shitload of telecom grade 4000 cycle rated lifepo4 batteries (4.9kWh is about $1700 per module), charging setup, inverters etc and go off grid. Maybe keep the grid link attached to a meter and 100A panel hooked up to nothing if needed for municipal compliance reasons.
    - zbrozek 4y ago
      That's pretty much what I'm doing, and for that reason. I don't have a great explanation for why it isn't happening faster, but I predict a substantial exodus from the California grid. Especially so in places with gas bans or among folks who electrify of their own accord.

WalterBright 4y ago

> really expensive during the day Doesn't really seem to fit with having surplus power.

sdenton4 4y ago
PG&E also has to pay for occasionally burning half the state.
zbrozek 4y ago
I blame the CPUC for basically everything regarding the crappiness of being a grid customer in California. PG&E is exactly the result you'd expect to get in our regulatory environment. Our regulators rubber stamp every tariff plan the company puts forth, and lets them get a larger profit margin on capex vs opex. So of course the optimal strategy is to run all equipment to failure and replace it with maximally expensive everything as frequently as possible. Torching the state is the business plan.

NavinF 4y ago

Can confirm. Rates are 64% higher than the US average and 100% higher than a lot of states. I wonder what they do with all this money.

zbrozek 4y ago
US average kWh is 14.77 cents while PG&E TOU-C starts at 37.460 and goes up to 48.902. So it's worse than you list. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-C.pdf https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...
- NavinF 4y ago
  Oh wow. Of course I can’t login to PG&E and confirm that because “Your Account is currently unavailable due to planned maintenance”. Bunch of thieves. Edit: $385.06/1033kW = $0.37/kWh A couple of servers really screws over the electric bill.
- walrus01 4y ago
  At that price of 37.4 cente per kWh and up I'm quite serious when I say that if I suddenly found myself owning a California house, I'd buy enough solar to meet my load needs, install a shitload of telecom grade 4000 cycle rated lifepo4 batteries (4.9kWh is about $1700 per module), charging setup, inverters etc and go off grid. Maybe keep the grid link attached to a meter and 100A panel hooked up to nothing if needed for municipal compliance reasons.
  - zbrozek 4y ago
    That's pretty much what I'm doing, and for that reason. I don't have a great explanation for why it isn't happening faster, but I predict a substantial exodus from the California grid. Especially so in places with gas bans or among folks who electrify of their own accord.