3 ms·

I'm sorry, I'm not American, nor do I live somewhere where there is anti-jewish sentiment. Is calling a Jew "Hassidic" derogatory?

gerdesj 4y ago
Sorry mate - it sounds like I called you out too soon. Ideally, keep race or skin colour or religion etc out of any discussion. As a rule of thumb I try to avoid noting any difference beyond M:F and even then - advisadly. I don't think there is any reason to note Jew or Hasidic in your post. I have no idea whether a Jew might be offended by that because I would not even get to that point - no need to pontificate about something you don't know about. People are people, regardless of race, creed or colour. Let us embrace similarity and not disparity: Us not Them.
- markdown 4y ago
  It wasn't my comment. But I appreciate the explanation. And I agree, their race wasn't relevant.
- 6sp 4y ago
  I agree completely on not mentioning if not relevant however I believe it was probably a substantial part of the story referenced. Here’s a NYT article which might provide some context: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/nyregion/hasidic-jews-ama https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/nyregion/hasidic-jews-ama...
fuckstick 4y ago
No it’s not and the GP is being a overly sensitive for no good reason. It’s a relatively recent sect of Judaism with a well known insular “ultra-orthodox” (more formally Haredi Judaism) Jewish community in New York, primarily Brooklyn and Israel. This is similar to something like the Amish, and pointing out something about Amish furniture or dairy businesses doesn’t make it automatically racist. Because they are an insular group they are known culturally in the US for their retail enterprises. B&H Photo-Video being the most famous one. Go there now (bhphotovideo.com), you can’t even order during Shabbat.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
I had a similar interpretation of the wording. I’ll take your response in good faith once because I do get the impression you’re asking sincerely, but be warned that should you have further questions you’ll likely fare better taking some time to familiarize yourself with how antisemitism often proliferates: Noting a person’s Jewish heritage or faith or membership (or that of a business’s proprietor, or some noted portion of their clientele) when their Jewishness is not directly related to the rest of the point is often a signal, like a dog whistle (which is a term often used for this kind of signal). Particularly taking such notice in reference to New York is a strong signal, and often “New York” is used as a substitute for the signal when similar connections might be expected. The first thing it signals to antisemites is identification of a target—either for immediate ridicule, harassment, some other form of abuse… or for identification which places a longer term target on them. The next thing it signals is that like minds are present. This was all somewhat obscure for even a lot of Americans, and easy to dismiss as an honest mistake rather than an intentional signal in a comment like yours, only a few years ago. Unfortunately a lot of white supremacist movements latched on to these kinds of dog whistles in the course of an election and ultimately an administration which both directly fostered these kinds of dog whistles and indirectly invited them into the mainstream by dismissively reacting to them (and sometimes rehabilitating them on the spot as “very fine people”). Even so, when it was so obscure, it was a way for fellow travelers to target victims and find compatriots. It’s just a lot more visible now and a lot harder to take comments like [edit: not yours, sorry!] as in good faith.
- markdown 4y ago
  I appreciate the explanation, thank you. In my neck of the woods you'll often hear "chinese" used in that way. And yes, it's not always obvious that it's meant negatively.

gerdesj 4y ago

Sorry mate - it sounds like I called you out too soon. Ideally, keep race or skin colour or religion etc out of any discussion. As a rule of thumb I try to avoid noting any difference beyond M:F and even then - advisadly. I don't think there is any reason to note Jew or Hasidic in your post. I have no idea whether a Jew might be offended by that because I would not even get to that point - no need to pontificate about something you don't know about. People are people, regardless of race, creed or colour. Let us embrace similarity and not disparity: Us not Them.

markdown 4y ago
It wasn't my comment. But I appreciate the explanation. And I agree, their race wasn't relevant.
6sp 4y ago
I agree completely on not mentioning if not relevant however I believe it was probably a substantial part of the story referenced. Here’s a NYT article which might provide some context: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/nyregion/hasidic-jews-ama https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/nyregion/hasidic-jews-ama...

fuckstick 4y ago

No it’s not and the GP is being a overly sensitive for no good reason. It’s a relatively recent sect of Judaism with a well known insular “ultra-orthodox” (more formally Haredi Judaism) Jewish community in New York, primarily Brooklyn and Israel. This is similar to something like the Amish, and pointing out something about Amish furniture or dairy businesses doesn’t make it automatically racist. Because they are an insular group they are known culturally in the US for their retail enterprises. B&H Photo-Video being the most famous one. Go there now (bhphotovideo.com), you can’t even order during Shabbat.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

I had a similar interpretation of the wording. I’ll take your response in good faith once because I do get the impression you’re asking sincerely, but be warned that should you have further questions you’ll likely fare better taking some time to familiarize yourself with how antisemitism often proliferates: Noting a person’s Jewish heritage or faith or membership (or that of a business’s proprietor, or some noted portion of their clientele) when their Jewishness is not directly related to the rest of the point is often a signal, like a dog whistle (which is a term often used for this kind of signal). Particularly taking such notice in reference to New York is a strong signal, and often “New York” is used as a substitute for the signal when similar connections might be expected. The first thing it signals to antisemites is identification of a target—either for immediate ridicule, harassment, some other form of abuse… or for identification which places a longer term target on them. The next thing it signals is that like minds are present. This was all somewhat obscure for even a lot of Americans, and easy to dismiss as an honest mistake rather than an intentional signal in a comment like yours, only a few years ago. Unfortunately a lot of white supremacist movements latched on to these kinds of dog whistles in the course of an election and ultimately an administration which both directly fostered these kinds of dog whistles and indirectly invited them into the mainstream by dismissively reacting to them (and sometimes rehabilitating them on the spot as “very fine people”). Even so, when it was so obscure, it was a way for fellow travelers to target victims and find compatriots. It’s just a lot more visible now and a lot harder to take comments like [edit: not yours, sorry!] as in good faith.

markdown 4y ago
I appreciate the explanation, thank you. In my neck of the woods you'll often hear "chinese" used in that way. And yes, it's not always obvious that it's meant negatively.