5 ms·

What's really horrifying is this: "such an incident cannot be detected unless the boxes arrive at the same port at the same time" So they running this port wit

What's really horrifying is this: "such an incident cannot be detected unless the boxes arrive at the same port at the same time" So they running this port with pencil and paper? No database? No sanity checks?

xxpor 4y ago
How do you know this container isn't the same one you saw before? You need to have them at the same place at the same time to know they're the same container.
- intrasight 4y ago
  Computers with business logic. It can't be the same one if it travels faster than is possible. And anyway, if they were being tracked ...
  - LeChuck 4y ago
    The terminal doesn't always know the destination. Why would it? And anyway, intended destinations can change.
  - fuzzfactor 4y ago
    Suppose you were the guy who goes around numbering containers to begin with. What are you going to use, a laptop or something? If it ran out of power without completing its process, upon reboot it might very well assign the same number to the next container. Even without a computer, you could have the day shift actually paint the number on the first container, but fail to finish the paperwork or it could get lost. Then the night shift comes along and uses the same number on the next container.
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>So they running this port with pencil and paper? No database? No sanity checks? Or they simply don't run those queries until they need to. i.e. "we don't give a F unless there's a hiccup" The point isn't to track containers. The point is to get goods to where they need to be and when. Unless two of the same container shows up thereby causing a WTF moment there is no problem because there is no ambiguity in the container handling process and therefore they don't care.
- lazide 4y ago
  Or each port does have it's own database, and so they can only notice a collision when two containers with the same ID show up at the same time? It's not like Bangladesh and Port of Los Angeles have a need/desire/whatever to share the same primary keys in the same database somewhere.
Swenrekcah 4y ago
I don’t see how a database (which they’re probably running anyway) would help, unless it’s connected to all other ports in the world an cross-examined for duplicates. Which sounds like a lot of work and I’m not sure port operators want to share that, although it would be really cool.
- binarymax 4y ago
  They should use a blockchain! I’ll see myself out…
  - lazide 4y ago
    It has been proposed in all serious several times - and then immediately the person proposing it was tarred and feathered, then disappeared by the relevant jurisdictions security services (only half kidding). I'd give you their names, but for some reason men wearing sunglasses and sitting in a van appear outside my house every time I consider it.
    - jamiek88 4y ago
      It’s probably people who think we don’t need gigawatts for a distributed ledger.
      - lazide 4y ago
        While they might consider THAT true, I suspect it has more to do with being able to track which companies and countries are doing what business with whom everywhere - especially if that includes countries they aren't supposed to be. Tracking containers port to port everywhere would be a MOUNTAIN of useful intel.
        dmitriid 4y ago
        Containers are already tracked. There's literally nothing stopping you from saying that container X is going to Italy when, in fact, it's going to Iran. Blockchain isn't magic.
Paddywack 4y ago
I worked in Bangladesh for 3 years, and it is such a land of contrasts. The main electricity supply company at the time was running manual billings from a big room filled with manual general ledgers, one “T” account per household. It is a humbling, impoverished country with its main riches being its resilient, kind, resourceful people. Down the road/bay from Chittagong are the shipwrecking yards - a big time investment but worth watching is this… https://youtu.be/5jdEG_ACXLw https://youtu.be/5jdEG_ACXLw <edit> the film I am looking for is Iron Eaters, a very human view of the horrific shipyards. The above film is from India, but still worth looking at.
- ccleve 4y ago
  Thank you for the link. I just watched it in entirety. It's slow moving but well worth it. It's about a world I did not know existed.
  - bloggie 4y ago
    The National Film Board of Canada is one of that country's most culturally valuable assets.
  - alex_suzuki 4y ago
    Very watchable indeed. Great stuff!

xxpor 4y ago

How do you know this container isn't the same one you saw before? You need to have them at the same place at the same time to know they're the same container.

intrasight 4y ago
Computers with business logic. It can't be the same one if it travels faster than is possible. And anyway, if they were being tracked ...
- LeChuck 4y ago
  The terminal doesn't always know the destination. Why would it? And anyway, intended destinations can change.
- fuzzfactor 4y ago
  Suppose you were the guy who goes around numbering containers to begin with. What are you going to use, a laptop or something? If it ran out of power without completing its process, upon reboot it might very well assign the same number to the next container. Even without a computer, you could have the day shift actually paint the number on the first container, but fail to finish the paperwork or it could get lost. Then the night shift comes along and uses the same number on the next container.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

>So they running this port with pencil and paper? No database? No sanity checks? Or they simply don't run those queries until they need to. i.e. "we don't give a F unless there's a hiccup" The point isn't to track containers. The point is to get goods to where they need to be and when. Unless two of the same container shows up thereby causing a WTF moment there is no problem because there is no ambiguity in the container handling process and therefore they don't care.

lazide 4y ago
Or each port does have it's own database, and so they can only notice a collision when two containers with the same ID show up at the same time? It's not like Bangladesh and Port of Los Angeles have a need/desire/whatever to share the same primary keys in the same database somewhere.

Swenrekcah 4y ago

I don’t see how a database (which they’re probably running anyway) would help, unless it’s connected to all other ports in the world an cross-examined for duplicates. Which sounds like a lot of work and I’m not sure port operators want to share that, although it would be really cool.

binarymax 4y ago
They should use a blockchain! I’ll see myself out…
- lazide 4y ago
  It has been proposed in all serious several times - and then immediately the person proposing it was tarred and feathered, then disappeared by the relevant jurisdictions security services (only half kidding). I'd give you their names, but for some reason men wearing sunglasses and sitting in a van appear outside my house every time I consider it.
  - jamiek88 4y ago
    It’s probably people who think we don’t need gigawatts for a distributed ledger.
    - lazide 4y ago
      While they might consider THAT true, I suspect it has more to do with being able to track which companies and countries are doing what business with whom everywhere - especially if that includes countries they aren't supposed to be. Tracking containers port to port everywhere would be a MOUNTAIN of useful intel.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        Containers are already tracked. There's literally nothing stopping you from saying that container X is going to Italy when, in fact, it's going to Iran. Blockchain isn't magic.

Paddywack 4y ago

I worked in Bangladesh for 3 years, and it is such a land of contrasts. The main electricity supply company at the time was running manual billings from a big room filled with manual general ledgers, one “T” account per household. It is a humbling, impoverished country with its main riches being its resilient, kind, resourceful people. Down the road/bay from Chittagong are the shipwrecking yards - a big time investment but worth watching is this… https://youtu.be/5jdEG_ACXLw https://youtu.be/5jdEG_ACXLw <edit> the film I am looking for is Iron Eaters, a very human view of the horrific shipyards. The above film is from India, but still worth looking at.

ccleve 4y ago
Thank you for the link. I just watched it in entirety. It's slow moving but well worth it. It's about a world I did not know existed.
- bloggie 4y ago
  The National Film Board of Canada is one of that country's most culturally valuable assets.
- alex_suzuki 4y ago
  Very watchable indeed. Great stuff!