9 ms·

This is an amazing space. They have a jaw-dropping range of equipment and the cleanest / largest / best shared work space and private offices I've ever had acce

by pkdpic 4y ago

This is an amazing space. They have a jaw-dropping range of equipment and the cleanest / largest / best shared work space and private offices I've ever had access to. It's unclear what the specific issues causing them to close are but it's definitely not an issue of quality. I have no experience organizing and my free time is unfortunately very limited right now but this seems very much like a place that is worth saving somehow...

the_biot 4y ago
It's right there in the announcement, albeit coated in tech-startup babble: they're out of money.
- throwntoday 4y ago
  - simfree 4y ago
    Community spaces cost real money. You have a choice as a space to price yourself at gym membership levels ($35 to $75 a month), or go higher and add value with storage space, desk space, really nice tools, staff, etc. Do you want to build a space for occasional use by a random, large assortment of people, or one where the members make consistent, weekly use of the space and value the space highly?
    - throwntoday 4y ago
      >storage space, desk space, really nice tools, staff, etc. All of those things besides the tools are a waste of money. The machine shop at my university was free. The foreman filtered morons and transients by throwing a 300-page safety book at anyone who wanted to cross the yellow-black tape. As a consequence everyone who was there really wanted to be. A low membership price puts it in the range of people who just want access to the tools. The kind of people who would also be hanging out when someone new shows up with an idea and a lot of questions. If boutique makerspaces work, then ask yourself why this place failed.
      - marcinzm 4y ago
        >The machine shop at my university was free. It wasn't free, it was paid for by the university and it's revenue sources. There is a difference.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        jazzyjackson 4y ago
        vikramkr 4y ago
        If you're planning on building a fountain somewhere else that doesn't already have an aqueduct, then yes absolutely, since that becomes a very relevant piece of information in your cost analysis
        jazzyjackson 4y ago
        OP wasn't suggesting anyone build a machine shop and then not charge money, they responded to this argument above: > Do you want to build a space for occasional use by a random, large assortment of people, or one where the members make consistent, weekly use of the space and value the space highly? by saying that price barrier is not a prerequisite for quality and safety of a space. People can value the space they're in because they were initiated into the culture, not merely because it costs $120/month.
        goodpoint 4y ago
        > It wasn't free, it was paid for by the university and it's revenue sources. There is a difference. No. Free means that the end user does not pay for it. Not that nobody pays for it.
      - thrown_22 4y ago
        >. The machine shop at my university was free. Paid for by tax payers is not free. I agree that there should be government investment in hacker spaces since they are just machine shops that aren't stuck in 1950. The name however was stupid and killed any take up by government. Maker spaces were a slightly better rebranding which at least didn't actively push sponsors away. >If boutique makerspaces work, then ask yourself why this place failed. Because at $100 a month it wasn't boutique. If you want the top end you do what universities do: charge $2k a month and give scholarships to the worth while members who can't afford that.
  - slater 4y ago
    "wokeshop"...?
    - throwntoday 4y ago
      The workshop filled with a bunch of "anarchist" flags where no one is doing anything interesting and members seem more concerned with creating an "inclusive" space than engineering. That wokeshop.
      - Animats 4y ago
        Oh, you mean Double Union in SF.[1] [1] https://doubleunion.org/membership/ https://doubleunion.org/membership/
        mindentropy 4y ago
        Is that a "wokeshop"?
        throwaway_4ever 4y ago
        "We are a space for nonbinary people and women (trans, cis, intersex, queer, straight, and not-fitting-into-those-labels). Membership is open to all women and nonbinary people, self-identified." You know, it's a little crazy that it's men being constantly accused of sexism in the tech industry when there are hard-coded rules for excluding men from places, employment opportunities, and not simply treating everyone as equals.
        mindentropy 4y ago
        Yes.That objective is totally crazy and I wonder why no one is criticizing it. Crazy stuff.
        the_biot 4y ago
        That is utterly horrifying. It's so nakedly racist and sexist, and proudly so. I comfort myself with the idea that such rabid hatred isn't sustainable in the long run. People mellow out, society mellows out and becomes ever more accepting. Fifty years from now this sort of thing will seem just as alien as, say, the McCarthy era, or indeed the alternate reality of communist states.
  - Animats 4y ago
    What's the "wokeshop"? Humanmade in SF charges US $250/month for access.
Melting_Harps 4y ago
> It's unclear what the specific issues causing them to close are but it's definitely not an issue of quality. It's pretty clear that they no longer have enough money to continue operations and were too reliant on non-revenue based sources (grants/partnerships) to keep the doors open which seems to have run dry: The reality is, our organization is unsustainable in its current form. Our revenue streams over the years have been a mix of membership, ticket sales, and office rentals, but heavily reliant on grants and partnerships. At present, without a significant investor, major partnership, or direct injection of funds, our runway is not long enough to make the changes necessary for building long-term self-reliance. It's a shame, looks like a really interesting spot for tinkerers and hackers. Let's hope they do get a chance to come back as they say it will remain in some capacity. Sacramento is a long drive from the bay area, where you'd think most of the target demographic resides, but I'm guessing the rent prices on a space make it untenable.
- groby_b 4y ago
  > but I'm guessing the rent prices on a space make it untenable. There's quite a bit of industrial space at... let's call it "not entirely unreasonable" prices in e.g. Oakland or other areas further out. As a result, there's really no shortage of makerspaces in the Bay Area. (https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/Maker_Spaces_In_San_Francisco_area https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/Maker_Spaces_In_San_Francisc...)
- public_defender 4y ago
  > too reliant on non-revenue based sources (grants/partnerships) to keep the doors open I looked into joining NYCResistor a while back and the membership fee was quite high (I don't remember it and I don't want to give wrong info). It was the kind of fee that would exclude a lot of people who this kind of space was meant to benefit and undercut the ethos of hacker/makerspaces generally. On the other hand, rent in downtown Brooklyn is really high. It sounds like this space was using grant funding to keep individual fees down and thereby promote accessibility. That's really cool. I am sad to see that they're closing, but this might be better for the community than multiplying membership fee rates or other "revenue" to stay open. It's a hard call and I don't envy them.

by pkdpic 4y ago

the_biot 4y ago

It's right there in the announcement, albeit coated in tech-startup babble: they're out of money.

throwntoday 4y ago
- simfree 4y ago
  Community spaces cost real money. You have a choice as a space to price yourself at gym membership levels ($35 to $75 a month), or go higher and add value with storage space, desk space, really nice tools, staff, etc. Do you want to build a space for occasional use by a random, large assortment of people, or one where the members make consistent, weekly use of the space and value the space highly?
  - throwntoday 4y ago
    >storage space, desk space, really nice tools, staff, etc. All of those things besides the tools are a waste of money. The machine shop at my university was free. The foreman filtered morons and transients by throwing a 300-page safety book at anyone who wanted to cross the yellow-black tape. As a consequence everyone who was there really wanted to be. A low membership price puts it in the range of people who just want access to the tools. The kind of people who would also be hanging out when someone new shows up with an idea and a lot of questions. If boutique makerspaces work, then ask yourself why this place failed.
    - marcinzm 4y ago
      >The machine shop at my university was free. It wasn't free, it was paid for by the university and it's revenue sources. There is a difference.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - jazzyjackson 4y ago
        vikramkr 4y ago
        If you're planning on building a fountain somewhere else that doesn't already have an aqueduct, then yes absolutely, since that becomes a very relevant piece of information in your cost analysis
        jazzyjackson 4y ago
        OP wasn't suggesting anyone build a machine shop and then not charge money, they responded to this argument above: > Do you want to build a space for occasional use by a random, large assortment of people, or one where the members make consistent, weekly use of the space and value the space highly? by saying that price barrier is not a prerequisite for quality and safety of a space. People can value the space they're in because they were initiated into the culture, not merely because it costs $120/month.
      - goodpoint 4y ago
        > It wasn't free, it was paid for by the university and it's revenue sources. There is a difference. No. Free means that the end user does not pay for it. Not that nobody pays for it.
    - thrown_22 4y ago
      >. The machine shop at my university was free. Paid for by tax payers is not free. I agree that there should be government investment in hacker spaces since they are just machine shops that aren't stuck in 1950. The name however was stupid and killed any take up by government. Maker spaces were a slightly better rebranding which at least didn't actively push sponsors away. >If boutique makerspaces work, then ask yourself why this place failed. Because at $100 a month it wasn't boutique. If you want the top end you do what universities do: charge $2k a month and give scholarships to the worth while members who can't afford that.
- slater 4y ago
  "wokeshop"...?
  - throwntoday 4y ago
    The workshop filled with a bunch of "anarchist" flags where no one is doing anything interesting and members seem more concerned with creating an "inclusive" space than engineering. That wokeshop.
    - Animats 4y ago
      Oh, you mean Double Union in SF.[1] [1] https://doubleunion.org/membership/ https://doubleunion.org/membership/
      - mindentropy 4y ago
        Is that a "wokeshop"?
        throwaway_4ever 4y ago
        "We are a space for nonbinary people and women (trans, cis, intersex, queer, straight, and not-fitting-into-those-labels). Membership is open to all women and nonbinary people, self-identified." You know, it's a little crazy that it's men being constantly accused of sexism in the tech industry when there are hard-coded rules for excluding men from places, employment opportunities, and not simply treating everyone as equals.
        mindentropy 4y ago
        Yes.That objective is totally crazy and I wonder why no one is criticizing it. Crazy stuff.
      - the_biot 4y ago
        That is utterly horrifying. It's so nakedly racist and sexist, and proudly so. I comfort myself with the idea that such rabid hatred isn't sustainable in the long run. People mellow out, society mellows out and becomes ever more accepting. Fifty years from now this sort of thing will seem just as alien as, say, the McCarthy era, or indeed the alternate reality of communist states.
- Animats 4y ago
  What's the "wokeshop"? Humanmade in SF charges US $250/month for access.

Melting_Harps 4y ago

> It's unclear what the specific issues causing them to close are but it's definitely not an issue of quality. It's pretty clear that they no longer have enough money to continue operations and were too reliant on non-revenue based sources (grants/partnerships) to keep the doors open which seems to have run dry: The reality is, our organization is unsustainable in its current form. Our revenue streams over the years have been a mix of membership, ticket sales, and office rentals, but heavily reliant on grants and partnerships. At present, without a significant investor, major partnership, or direct injection of funds, our runway is not long enough to make the changes necessary for building long-term self-reliance. It's a shame, looks like a really interesting spot for tinkerers and hackers. Let's hope they do get a chance to come back as they say it will remain in some capacity. Sacramento is a long drive from the bay area, where you'd think most of the target demographic resides, but I'm guessing the rent prices on a space make it untenable.

groby_b 4y ago
> but I'm guessing the rent prices on a space make it untenable. There's quite a bit of industrial space at... let's call it "not entirely unreasonable" prices in e.g. Oakland or other areas further out. As a result, there's really no shortage of makerspaces in the Bay Area. (https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/Maker_Spaces_In_San_Francisco_area https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/Maker_Spaces_In_San_Francisc...)
public_defender 4y ago
> too reliant on non-revenue based sources (grants/partnerships) to keep the doors open I looked into joining NYCResistor a while back and the membership fee was quite high (I don't remember it and I don't want to give wrong info). It was the kind of fee that would exclude a lot of people who this kind of space was meant to benefit and undercut the ethos of hacker/makerspaces generally. On the other hand, rent in downtown Brooklyn is really high. It sounds like this space was using grant funding to keep individual fees down and thereby promote accessibility. That's really cool. I am sad to see that they're closing, but this might be better for the community than multiplying membership fee rates or other "revenue" to stay open. It's a hard call and I don't envy them.