5 ms·

> The technology now exists to theoretically cover many hundreds of square km of Libya in photovoltaics and take the electricty to Europe through a sub-sea cabl

> The technology now exists to theoretically cover many hundreds of square km of Libya in photovoltaics and take the electricty to Europe through a sub-sea cable Climate benefits aside, how in the heck is this an improvement over the current situation? Long-term I really don't think it is prudent for Europe to rely on potentially unfriendly nations to provide them with energy.

walrus01 4y ago
realpolitik would tell me that a scenario where europe was highly dependent on libya (or morocco, or other north african countries) for electricity would be vastly preferable to a scenario being dependent upon russia for gas pipeline supplies. if sufficiently threatened europe could summon enough political will to require libya to do its bidding through threat of sanctions and adverse action against it, worst case, military force to set up a cooperative libyan puppet regime. the balance of the size of the economies and population of western europe as a whole vs libya is very different than western europe vs russia. not exactly something that can be done with a nuclear armed state the size of russia.
- silvestrov 4y ago
  There is sun enough in Spain and Italy (and even France and south Germany) that we don't need Morocco/Libya. Also: heat and dusty environments are really bad for efficiency. Better with a place where it rains once in a while. Today at 13:00 more than 38% of electricy in Germany was produced by solar panels! https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE
  - walrus01 4y ago
    that is a very good point and of course as much as possible should be generated domestically first. If you open a high res aerial view of any random french or german city right now and look at the roofs of how many warehouses and huge structures are presently covered in PV, versus how many could be covered in PV if we really wanted to, for instance.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      We could also cover all the roads with PV, invest highly in saltwater batteries, the global grid , small, modular nuclear reactors, solar desalination, developement help for poor countries by building up a local solar industry etc. etc. But the world is rather focused on war. Now in the ukraine, but taiwan is building up. I mean, a nuclear holocaust would also reduce CO2 emissions, but seriously, it is so frustrating that there are technological solutions to real problems, but they are just not seriously implemented. We could, but we don't. At least not on a global scale.
- ku-man 4y ago
- kragen 4y ago
  > if sufficiently threatened europe could summon enough political will to require libya to do its bidding through threat of sanctions and adverse action against it, worst case, military force to set up a cooperative libyan puppet regime. This sounds like ⓐ a plausible reason for the Libyan government to refuse any such project; ⓑ a good reason for the Spanish and French to ally with the Libyan government (puppet or otherwise) against the Germans and Italians, or the Germans and Spanish to ally with them against the Italians and French, or whatever; ⓒ unstable after a few decades, when Europe's own military forces are no longer overwhelmingly larger than Libya's. (Don't think ⓒ can happen in Libya? The Eight-Nation Alliance didn't think it could happen in China either.)

walrus01 4y ago

realpolitik would tell me that a scenario where europe was highly dependent on libya (or morocco, or other north african countries) for electricity would be vastly preferable to a scenario being dependent upon russia for gas pipeline supplies. if sufficiently threatened europe could summon enough political will to require libya to do its bidding through threat of sanctions and adverse action against it, worst case, military force to set up a cooperative libyan puppet regime. the balance of the size of the economies and population of western europe as a whole vs libya is very different than western europe vs russia. not exactly something that can be done with a nuclear armed state the size of russia.

silvestrov 4y ago
There is sun enough in Spain and Italy (and even France and south Germany) that we don't need Morocco/Libya. Also: heat and dusty environments are really bad for efficiency. Better with a place where it rains once in a while. Today at 13:00 more than 38% of electricy in Germany was produced by solar panels! https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE
- walrus01 4y ago
  that is a very good point and of course as much as possible should be generated domestically first. If you open a high res aerial view of any random french or german city right now and look at the roofs of how many warehouses and huge structures are presently covered in PV, versus how many could be covered in PV if we really wanted to, for instance.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    We could also cover all the roads with PV, invest highly in saltwater batteries, the global grid , small, modular nuclear reactors, solar desalination, developement help for poor countries by building up a local solar industry etc. etc. But the world is rather focused on war. Now in the ukraine, but taiwan is building up. I mean, a nuclear holocaust would also reduce CO2 emissions, but seriously, it is so frustrating that there are technological solutions to real problems, but they are just not seriously implemented. We could, but we don't. At least not on a global scale.
ku-man 4y ago
kragen 4y ago
> if sufficiently threatened europe could summon enough political will to require libya to do its bidding through threat of sanctions and adverse action against it, worst case, military force to set up a cooperative libyan puppet regime. This sounds like ⓐ a plausible reason for the Libyan government to refuse any such project; ⓑ a good reason for the Spanish and French to ally with the Libyan government (puppet or otherwise) against the Germans and Italians, or the Germans and Spanish to ally with them against the Italians and French, or whatever; ⓒ unstable after a few decades, when Europe's own military forces are no longer overwhelmingly larger than Libya's. (Don't think ⓒ can happen in Libya? The Eight-Nation Alliance didn't think it could happen in China either.)