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If I were to argue that Tesla succeeded in spite of Elon, how would you disprove that? I could point to his bitcoin investments, many discrimination cases, fai

by camdat 4y ago

If I were to argue that Tesla succeeded in spite of Elon, how would you disprove that? I could point to his bitcoin investments, many discrimination cases, failure to release Autopilot (against his own promises), SEC action, and Tesla share price manipulation as examples of him hurting the companies success, and directly connect them to his actions. Could you do the same for the companies success?

WalterBright 4y ago
> how would you disprove that? Easy. Nobody else's electric car company succeeded. What's the common factor in Tesla's and SpaceX's highly unlikely successes? Elon Musk. What's the common factor in Pixar's and Apple's recovery from near bankruptcy and catapulting to the top? Steve Jobs.
- camdat 4y ago
  > Easy. Nobody else's electric car company succeeded. Define "succeeded"? Tesla was definitely not first to market, Ford is expected to surpass them in EV cars shipped by end of this year, and Tesla is well known for their poor car QA + service (as an owner myself). The comparison between Steve Jobs and Elon Musk is very apt, but I think you lack the historical knowledge to understand why that is.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > Define "succeeded"? You might not be aware that your replies to me have exhibited 3 characteristics of losing the point: 1. inserting extra words into what I wrote so you can then attack the strawman 2. diversion into arguing about the meaning of words 3. lobbing a personal insult I'm sure you can do better.
    - camdat 4y ago
      I'm aware. It's difficult to have a causational discussion with someone continually using correlational evidence. If I say with "provide a reason why Elon is necessary to the success of the company", and you respond with "Look at the success of these two companies he led" that's completely tangential to the question. So in exchange for "doing better" answer a simple question for me: What specific actions did Elon take that led to the success of Tesla and/or SpaceX? I've provided several specific actions that were to the detriment of Tesla, so it should be straightforward to do the inverse.

by camdat 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

> how would you disprove that? Easy. Nobody else's electric car company succeeded. What's the common factor in Tesla's and SpaceX's highly unlikely successes? Elon Musk. What's the common factor in Pixar's and Apple's recovery from near bankruptcy and catapulting to the top? Steve Jobs.

camdat 4y ago
> Easy. Nobody else's electric car company succeeded. Define "succeeded"? Tesla was definitely not first to market, Ford is expected to surpass them in EV cars shipped by end of this year, and Tesla is well known for their poor car QA + service (as an owner myself). The comparison between Steve Jobs and Elon Musk is very apt, but I think you lack the historical knowledge to understand why that is.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > Define "succeeded"? You might not be aware that your replies to me have exhibited 3 characteristics of losing the point: 1. inserting extra words into what I wrote so you can then attack the strawman 2. diversion into arguing about the meaning of words 3. lobbing a personal insult I'm sure you can do better.
  - camdat 4y ago
    I'm aware. It's difficult to have a causational discussion with someone continually using correlational evidence. If I say with "provide a reason why Elon is necessary to the success of the company", and you respond with "Look at the success of these two companies he led" that's completely tangential to the question. So in exchange for "doing better" answer a simple question for me: What specific actions did Elon take that led to the success of Tesla and/or SpaceX? I've provided several specific actions that were to the detriment of Tesla, so it should be straightforward to do the inverse.