4 ms·

I don't think so. It's a rip off when they copy everything, and copy it badly. For instance, the keyboard design on the Mac has "separated" keys because it's n

by gnaffle 15y ago

I don't think so. It's a rip off when they copy everything, and copy it badly. For instance, the keyboard design on the Mac has "separated" keys because it's needed to give better structural support to the unibody frame. It's not just a "cool design thing". Jony Ive talks about it here: http://youtu.be/t0fe800C2CU?t=2m46s http://youtu.be/t0fe800C2CU?t=2m46s Watching other companies copy this keyboard design in many ways resembles the first people trying to fly by flapping their cloth covered wings. "It looks exactly the same as what the bird does, dammit, why isn't it working?!" Now, imagine how many different, _better_ products one could have if only more companies had someone as obsessed with product design as Ive, and gave him some authority. What if some laptop manufacturer made a thinner, more sturdy ultraportable design that for some reason didn't need this keyboard design? It wouldn't have to look anything like the MBA, and it wouldn't be accused of being a rip-off.

dman 15y ago
http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/ http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/ - designers at other companies sweat the details too.
- gnaffle 15y ago
  They sweat the details, but sadly not enough. I guess there might be some great designers in many other companies. The big problem, of course, is that they don't get the resources to do great work. That was true of the Apple pre Steve Jobs as well. Some companies are better than others, but I don't know of any that takes attention to detail to the extremes that Apple do. The underside of the X1 very "clean" compared to other laptops: http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/img_lib/products/splitter/notebooks/ThinkPad/x-Series/gallery/X1-13L.jpg http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/img_lib/products... But it wouldn't be good enough for Ive: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/hQs2dpxbDLwekWTm.huge http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/hQs2dpxbDLwekWTm.huge Of course, only design freaks worry about something like this. But it's attention to detail that has gotten Apple to where it is today.
  - jarek 15y ago
    Yes, that is also why iPhones have no gratuitous text about things like where they were designed on their back.
    - gnaffle 15y ago
      Not sure what point you are trying to make. Do you disagree with what I said, or do you think this text (or the Apple logo) is any proof that I'm wrong?
      - jarek 15y ago
        I'm implicitly wondering whether you think the back side of the iPhone is good enough for Ive, why or why not, and what that implies about the amount of details Apple "sweats." It seems to me Apple "sweats" details until they don't, and the classification under which the underside of the X1 wouldn't be good enough but the back side of the iPhone - complete with FCC and CE logos - is seems rather arbitrary.
        gnaffle 15y ago
        I'll try to explain the difference. Without a battery cover to hide them, I think those logos need to be there. It certainly seems like they have put thought into the placement, font size etc. Given the constraints, the designers did the best they could. The underside of the X1 has many "arbitrary" vent holes and screws. Why are they placed like that? Well, probably because the internal components demanded they be like that. The designers did the best they could given the constraints. Now, why were the internal components designed like that? Who knows. Could they have been designed in another way to make the vent holes look more symmetrical? Yes, but it would probably be very expensive. That's one of a ton of decisions that are made, where someone at Apple said "screw it, lets spend the money and do it the proper way". So, to me, the X1 backside tells a deeper story about the design process of the product, how engineers and designers worked together to create the product, and how compromises were made. The iPhone backside only tells you that some regulators wants their logos on products, and that some marketer (maybe Steve Jobs) wanted you to feel good about owning a product assembled in China.

by gnaffle 15y ago

dman 15y ago

http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/ http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/ - designers at other companies sweat the details too.

gnaffle 15y ago
They sweat the details, but sadly not enough. I guess there might be some great designers in many other companies. The big problem, of course, is that they don't get the resources to do great work. That was true of the Apple pre Steve Jobs as well. Some companies are better than others, but I don't know of any that takes attention to detail to the extremes that Apple do. The underside of the X1 very "clean" compared to other laptops: http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/img_lib/products/splitter/notebooks/ThinkPad/x-Series/gallery/X1-13L.jpg http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/img_lib/products... But it wouldn't be good enough for Ive: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/hQs2dpxbDLwekWTm.huge http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/hQs2dpxbDLwekWTm.huge Of course, only design freaks worry about something like this. But it's attention to detail that has gotten Apple to where it is today.
- jarek 15y ago
  Yes, that is also why iPhones have no gratuitous text about things like where they were designed on their back.
  - gnaffle 15y ago
    Not sure what point you are trying to make. Do you disagree with what I said, or do you think this text (or the Apple logo) is any proof that I'm wrong?
    - jarek 15y ago
      I'm implicitly wondering whether you think the back side of the iPhone is good enough for Ive, why or why not, and what that implies about the amount of details Apple "sweats." It seems to me Apple "sweats" details until they don't, and the classification under which the underside of the X1 wouldn't be good enough but the back side of the iPhone - complete with FCC and CE logos - is seems rather arbitrary.
      - gnaffle 15y ago
        I'll try to explain the difference. Without a battery cover to hide them, I think those logos need to be there. It certainly seems like they have put thought into the placement, font size etc. Given the constraints, the designers did the best they could. The underside of the X1 has many "arbitrary" vent holes and screws. Why are they placed like that? Well, probably because the internal components demanded they be like that. The designers did the best they could given the constraints. Now, why were the internal components designed like that? Who knows. Could they have been designed in another way to make the vent holes look more symmetrical? Yes, but it would probably be very expensive. That's one of a ton of decisions that are made, where someone at Apple said "screw it, lets spend the money and do it the proper way". So, to me, the X1 backside tells a deeper story about the design process of the product, how engineers and designers worked together to create the product, and how compromises were made. The iPhone backside only tells you that some regulators wants their logos on products, and that some marketer (maybe Steve Jobs) wanted you to feel good about owning a product assembled in China.