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Sponsorships encourage deception (tricking the user into not skipping) and building up parasocial relationships with the audience to abuse their trust, the wors

by ajayyy 4y ago

Sponsorships encourage deception (tricking the user into not skipping) and building up parasocial relationships with the audience to abuse their trust, the worst of the influencer world I made SponsorBlock, and over the years working on it, I have been able to see how horrible some of the techniques people use are

closewith 4y ago
Two questions for you: Do you believe that sponsorships are worse that targeted digital advertising? Do you believe there are any Youtubers who have acted ethically in accepting sponsorships? > I made SponsorBlock, and over the years working on it, I have been able to see how horrible some of the techniques people use are It seems somewhat hypocritical to pretend that SponsorBlock is an ethical reaction to bad sponsorships when the clear ethical response would be to simply not watch the content. To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with SponsorBlock, but let's be honest. It's purpose is convenience, not any higher moral objective.
- ajayyy 4y ago
  > Do you believe that sponsorships are worse that targeted digital advertising? With podcasts, it seems people are now trying to get the worst of both worlds, with dynamic advertisements from a pool based on who you are + the ads are read out by the podcast creator. I can't say that either case is worse than the other, but they are bad for different reasons. > Do you believe there are any Youtubers who have acted ethically in accepting sponsorships? There exist some that have clear transitions, declare in the first sentence that it is a sponsor, repeat at the end that it is a sponsor, and say explicitly in the ad-read that it is not their opinion but a script. That is certainly less deceptive. But unfortunately, this is not usually consistent. Some of their videos will do it well, and some do it poorly. > It's purpose is convenience, not any higher moral objective With "full video" labels (https://blog.ajay.app/full-video-sponsorblock https://blog.ajay.app/full-video-sponsorblock), I've started to delve into the fixing bad declarations world. Full videos don't skip anything, but just inform the viewer what to watch out for. I want to make a wiki-like system for organising more precise biases in the future as well, and allow people to know which where each opinion in a video comes from. Another fact I'll point out is that we sometimes get complaints that certain sponsor sections are incorrect, even though they totally are correct due to them not knowing it is paid promotion. An example is dbrand, which pays many top tech people to randomly mention their name in reviews, usually without much disclosure.
  - closewith 4y ago
    I don't think you're being honest in your motivations here. SponsorBlock is a convenience tool to avoid having to watch/listen to ads. It's your stated aim on your website: > SponsorBlock is an open-source crowdsourced browser extension and open API for skipping sponsor segments in YouTube videos. Again, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with using SponsorBlock, but I think it's absurd to claim it's a morally positive tool.
    - ajayyy 4y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20781415 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20781415 The thing that sparked the idea was a badly disclosed sponsorship. The saving time bits are great, and that's why there's more features now than just ads, you can skip intros too. However, I did start this explicitly due to being frustrated with the state of deception in the sponsorship world, and that remains my main motivation.
      - closewith 4y ago
        That may have been the initial motivation, but SponsorBlock isn't a tool to reveal hidden product placement or sponsorships. It's not described that way on your site or the add-on pages, used that way, or - if we're honest - popular for that reason. In the end, the motivation is not the tool as implemented.
Varqu 4y ago
So basically your expectation is that your favorite podcast authors create the content for you free of charge and don't earn a dime? (I assume from your message tone that you are not a fan of paying for the content, either)
- ajayyy 4y ago
  I am perfectly happy paying for content
  - Varqu 4y ago
    How many podcasts (out of those that you listen to) do you pay for?
  - closewith 4y ago
    But not happy to forgo it if the creators accept sponsorships you dislike?
    - ajayyy 4y ago
      There is no money you can pay to get the same experience as SponsorBlock. Some channels are offering "sponsor-free" content on exclusive sites such as Nebula, CorridorDigital.com and Floatplane, but I've checked all of these out and they don't cut as smoothly as us, and often leave parts of sponsorships in if they find it humourous. Some of the sponsor cuts on Nebula are done so lazily... If Nebula existed when I created SponsorBlock, would I have created it? Maybe not, but I think the existence of the tool should prove that people want to avoid this stuff, and more creators should take note and provide ways to at least pay to avoid it. And, if your ads are still deceptive, allowing a privileged few to pay to avoid them doesn't solve that issue
      - closewith 4y ago
        You didn't answer the question. If the creators are deceptive, isn't the ethical course of action to stop consuming their content. After all, SponsorBlock doesn't address the deception or the parasocial nature you complained about elsewhere. It just hides the ads that the creators inserted. Given that SponsorBlock also allows users to skip the segments where users are offered ways to pay (like Patreon), it also seems especially hypocritical to suggest that. Again, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with using SponsorBlock, but I think you're fooling yourself if you think it serves some public good. It just removes the only privacy-preserving form of advertising available to creators and let's people consume their work without the inconvenience of watching the ads that pay for it.
tomjen3 4y ago
Thank you for making it. I don't really care much about deceptive advertising, but I love the peace of mind it gives me, because I can dwell into a topic without getting distracted by irrelevant stuff.

by ajayyy 4y ago

closewith 4y ago

Two questions for you: Do you believe that sponsorships are worse that targeted digital advertising? Do you believe there are any Youtubers who have acted ethically in accepting sponsorships? > I made SponsorBlock, and over the years working on it, I have been able to see how horrible some of the techniques people use are It seems somewhat hypocritical to pretend that SponsorBlock is an ethical reaction to bad sponsorships when the clear ethical response would be to simply not watch the content. To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with SponsorBlock, but let's be honest. It's purpose is convenience, not any higher moral objective.

ajayyy 4y ago
> Do you believe that sponsorships are worse that targeted digital advertising? With podcasts, it seems people are now trying to get the worst of both worlds, with dynamic advertisements from a pool based on who you are + the ads are read out by the podcast creator. I can't say that either case is worse than the other, but they are bad for different reasons. > Do you believe there are any Youtubers who have acted ethically in accepting sponsorships? There exist some that have clear transitions, declare in the first sentence that it is a sponsor, repeat at the end that it is a sponsor, and say explicitly in the ad-read that it is not their opinion but a script. That is certainly less deceptive. But unfortunately, this is not usually consistent. Some of their videos will do it well, and some do it poorly. > It's purpose is convenience, not any higher moral objective With "full video" labels (https://blog.ajay.app/full-video-sponsorblock https://blog.ajay.app/full-video-sponsorblock), I've started to delve into the fixing bad declarations world. Full videos don't skip anything, but just inform the viewer what to watch out for. I want to make a wiki-like system for organising more precise biases in the future as well, and allow people to know which where each opinion in a video comes from. Another fact I'll point out is that we sometimes get complaints that certain sponsor sections are incorrect, even though they totally are correct due to them not knowing it is paid promotion. An example is dbrand, which pays many top tech people to randomly mention their name in reviews, usually without much disclosure.
- closewith 4y ago
  I don't think you're being honest in your motivations here. SponsorBlock is a convenience tool to avoid having to watch/listen to ads. It's your stated aim on your website: > SponsorBlock is an open-source crowdsourced browser extension and open API for skipping sponsor segments in YouTube videos. Again, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with using SponsorBlock, but I think it's absurd to claim it's a morally positive tool.
  - ajayyy 4y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20781415 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20781415 The thing that sparked the idea was a badly disclosed sponsorship. The saving time bits are great, and that's why there's more features now than just ads, you can skip intros too. However, I did start this explicitly due to being frustrated with the state of deception in the sponsorship world, and that remains my main motivation.
    - closewith 4y ago
      That may have been the initial motivation, but SponsorBlock isn't a tool to reveal hidden product placement or sponsorships. It's not described that way on your site or the add-on pages, used that way, or - if we're honest - popular for that reason. In the end, the motivation is not the tool as implemented.

Varqu 4y ago

So basically your expectation is that your favorite podcast authors create the content for you free of charge and don't earn a dime? (I assume from your message tone that you are not a fan of paying for the content, either)

ajayyy 4y ago
I am perfectly happy paying for content
- Varqu 4y ago
  How many podcasts (out of those that you listen to) do you pay for?
- closewith 4y ago
  But not happy to forgo it if the creators accept sponsorships you dislike?
  - ajayyy 4y ago
    There is no money you can pay to get the same experience as SponsorBlock. Some channels are offering "sponsor-free" content on exclusive sites such as Nebula, CorridorDigital.com and Floatplane, but I've checked all of these out and they don't cut as smoothly as us, and often leave parts of sponsorships in if they find it humourous. Some of the sponsor cuts on Nebula are done so lazily... If Nebula existed when I created SponsorBlock, would I have created it? Maybe not, but I think the existence of the tool should prove that people want to avoid this stuff, and more creators should take note and provide ways to at least pay to avoid it. And, if your ads are still deceptive, allowing a privileged few to pay to avoid them doesn't solve that issue
    - closewith 4y ago
      You didn't answer the question. If the creators are deceptive, isn't the ethical course of action to stop consuming their content. After all, SponsorBlock doesn't address the deception or the parasocial nature you complained about elsewhere. It just hides the ads that the creators inserted. Given that SponsorBlock also allows users to skip the segments where users are offered ways to pay (like Patreon), it also seems especially hypocritical to suggest that. Again, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with using SponsorBlock, but I think you're fooling yourself if you think it serves some public good. It just removes the only privacy-preserving form of advertising available to creators and let's people consume their work without the inconvenience of watching the ads that pay for it.

tomjen3 4y ago

Thank you for making it. I don't really care much about deceptive advertising, but I love the peace of mind it gives me, because I can dwell into a topic without getting distracted by irrelevant stuff.