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> Sure, I went on to address exactly why that is. US labor is expensive, because our currency has been continually hollowed out by the deliberate government pol

> Sure, I went on to address exactly why that is. US labor is expensive, because our currency has been continually hollowed out by the deliberate government policy that prices must always go up, despite continual technological and economic progress trying to make things less expensive. Sorry, what policy is that? Are you talking about how the Federal Reserve targets 2% inflation? Every country does that. It's important that nominal prices increase. Otherwise, people just old on to their money and the economy slows down. If that's not the government policy you're talking about, or if you have an example of a country without inflation targets, I would like to see it. > Also I would be surprised if relatively small runs of long lasting municipal fixtures could be "stamped out from sheet metal". This seems to be a bias towards disposable consumer crap talking. Sheet metal is an amazing material. It lets a company focus on producing a high quality steel without worrying about how every consumer downstream will consume it. It also allows for highly efficient shape forming and stamping. The fins on the garbage can almost certain come from sheet metal. Airplanes and cars are made with sheet metal. It's probably one of the most important materials in modern manufacturing.

mindslight 4y ago
> Are you talking about how the Federal Reserve targets 2% inflation? Specifically 2% inflation defined in terms of a consumer price index where the cost to produce manufactured goods is continually dropping. Draw a diagram of the feedback loop, and you'll see that the only way to make that target happen is for the cost of non-offshore-manufactured goods to increase much quicker than 2% to compensate. Put another way, manufacturing was offshored with the idea it would lead to cheap prices, and then the Federal Reserve went and deliberately stopped those cheaper prices from happening. This left Americans with fewer jobs but also no increased economic power to make up for it. > It's important that nominal prices increase. Otherwise, people just old on to their money and the economy slows down I understand the orthodoxy, but the computing industry has had four decades of overwhelming deflation and has been quite vibrant the entire time. Re: sheet metal, how much is the tooling cost to create a die for 1/4 inch steel? I don't have much experience, but at the relatively low quantity a municipality wants CNC plasma might still make more sense. That seems to be the case for tractor implements.
- atwood22 4y ago
  > I understand the orthodoxy, but the computing industry has had four decades of overwhelming deflation and has been quite vibrant the entire time. This is an interesting point I haven't thought of. Perhaps the reason it happens with the computer industry is that the utility of digitization is so high that the impetus to do the work now usually outweighs waiting for a cheaper price. Thanks for the insight, though. It has changed how I view this issue.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    That's a good point, but the same thing can be said about food, or even discretionary leisure spending. It's a scalar result rather than a binary one. So to me, the real question is do we need more or less manufacturing/consumption in the world today?

mindslight 4y ago

> Are you talking about how the Federal Reserve targets 2% inflation? Specifically 2% inflation defined in terms of a consumer price index where the cost to produce manufactured goods is continually dropping. Draw a diagram of the feedback loop, and you'll see that the only way to make that target happen is for the cost of non-offshore-manufactured goods to increase much quicker than 2% to compensate. Put another way, manufacturing was offshored with the idea it would lead to cheap prices, and then the Federal Reserve went and deliberately stopped those cheaper prices from happening. This left Americans with fewer jobs but also no increased economic power to make up for it. > It's important that nominal prices increase. Otherwise, people just old on to their money and the economy slows down I understand the orthodoxy, but the computing industry has had four decades of overwhelming deflation and has been quite vibrant the entire time. Re: sheet metal, how much is the tooling cost to create a die for 1/4 inch steel? I don't have much experience, but at the relatively low quantity a municipality wants CNC plasma might still make more sense. That seems to be the case for tractor implements.

atwood22 4y ago
> I understand the orthodoxy, but the computing industry has had four decades of overwhelming deflation and has been quite vibrant the entire time. This is an interesting point I haven't thought of. Perhaps the reason it happens with the computer industry is that the utility of digitization is so high that the impetus to do the work now usually outweighs waiting for a cheaper price. Thanks for the insight, though. It has changed how I view this issue.
- mindslight 4y ago
  That's a good point, but the same thing can be said about food, or even discretionary leisure spending. It's a scalar result rather than a binary one. So to me, the real question is do we need more or less manufacturing/consumption in the world today?