8 ms·
This sounds like it's the same thing as the thermal pad mod for the M1 MacBook Air. On the upside, you get better sustained performance and it lasts nearly jus
by Kirby64 4y ago
This sounds like it's the same thing as the thermal pad mod for the M1 MacBook Air.
On the upside, you get better sustained performance and it lasts nearly just as long as the Pro, from what I recall. On the downside, it elevated the temperature of the backside aluminum to a high enough temperature to be able to cause burns (something like 80-90C). Not a huge issue if you always use it on a table or something, but if you truly use it as a 'lap' top, it'll be quite unpleasant.
- yumraj 4y ago> if you truly use it as a 'lap' top, it'll be quite unpleasant. Sounds not too different from Intel MBP's. I could never use my MBP as a "lap" top due to how hot it got.
- macinjosh 4y agoI kid you not, in the early Intel MacBookPro days the Genius Bar told me that my extremely hot MBP that I could not use on my lap due to the heat was not in fact a laptop computer but a notebook computer and by using it on my lap I was essentially holding it wrong. This was in or around 2005 IIRC.
- kube-system 4y agoThis isn’t just a Mac thing, lawyers on all sides of the PC market highly suggested the terminology “notebook” over laptop for the longest time.
- SenHeng 4y agoUnsure if related, laptops are called Note-PCs here in Japan. Asking anyone about a 'laptop' will just get you blank stares.
- eastbound 4y agoThe original Intel i7 in my HP laptop in 2010 had a working temperature up to 102°C. The fan noise was insane. Never bought another PC after that.
- selectodude 4y agoThat was the line back when the 12" Powerbook G4 was burning laps.
- mcronce 4y agoA few companies ago, our IT dept's nannyware had a bug on OSX that was causing it to peg a CPU core at random. So, in engineering, we obviously just found a way to disable it. The IT guys were not amused. "It is against IT policy to disable this software" - yeah, well, it's against my policy to let your stuff burn my legs; get the bug fixed and I'll turn it back on.
- rejectfinite 4y agoYou think IT likes it? You think IT can fix the software? No. But if its antivirus or patching program. Come audit time: "Hey IT, why isent software X installed on all computers?" "Engineering dept found a way to disable it due to bugs in it!" "rah rah unacceptable, you neeed to ensure this is installed, rah rah fix now etc etc"
- skyyler 4y agoIt must be nice to be able to implement substandard solutions and treat them as if they aren't substandard.
- rejectfinite 4y agoDirectors pay the bill.
- dijit 4y agoBut where are they getting the money? Surely everyone is beholden to everyone else in a company context? Directors aren't directly producing value, usually the software/sales/service is.
- nicoburns 4y agoAnd what do they do when the vulnerability is in software X?
- rejectfinite 4y ago
- numpad0 4y agoIBM manuals back then had warnings for that, and three line pitch as to why they refer to laptops as “portable computers” because of that.
- webmobdev 4y ago
- tshaddox 4y agoThat doesn't seem particularly unreasonable or even notable, other than the silly comment about the laptop vs. notebook label. Around that time all the laptops I remember got ridiculously warm. It was in the zeitgeist that men shouldn't use laptops on their lap because the heat could damage sperm quality. Everyone had those laptop trays with extra fans in them for using them on their lap.
- rahen 4y agoIt also conducts heat to the batteries through the aluminum backside, which could shorten their lifespan or even cause them some damage.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- terramex 4y agoMy M1 with thermal pad backside under heavy load gets to maximum 46°C compared to 37°C before. Everything above 42°C is uncomfortable on lap but it is not an issue for me at all as every time I need to run heavy load for long I'll be at my desk.
- mrtksn 4y agoI've modded my M1 air and have seen and measured the improvements but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Yes, it throttles less and things like renders and exports take less time but this machine already has about 10 minutes of "buffer" before it throttles and as a result you don't see the benefits before pushing the device beyond what's reasonable for an ultraportable laptop. I would rarely do anything that lasts more than 10 minutes of full CPU/GPU load and when I do it would be something like half an hour and the thermal pad mod will give me back 5 minutes. If I'm going to render something that takes hours, I would not do it on my machine that I use for everything. I would do it on some desktop with Nvidia graphics or I will rent a machine build for the task. I don't think it's necessary. On the other hand, I also modded my girlfriends 2020 Air with Core i5 and the improvements were much more noticeable. Unexpectedly, the battery life improved too.
- SmellTheGlove 4y agoCould you point me to any resources on the mod for the 2020? I also have an i5 MBA and am interested in this. Google gave me trash results!
- mikeyouse 4y agoHaven't done it myself, but here's a Reddit thread where someone walks through it: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/ud73ve/thermal_pad_mod_on_the_2020_intel_macbook_pro/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/ud73ve/thermal_...
- mrtksn 4y agoHere are a few videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e_JGTbAg2U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e_JGTbAg2U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIB6npHBL2M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIB6npHBL2M However I did not follow a tutorial, I wasn't planning to mod that one but since I had leftover thermal pad, decided to give it a try. Remember how YouTubers made a big deal about the "heat sink is not connected to a fan"? Well, they simply didn't know what they are talking about. The air flows from that heatsink even if the fan is at the other end of the laptop. Which means, you should be careful not to block the airflow when doing the mod. I put a thermal pad that is about half of the size of the heatsink.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago> On the downside, it elevated the temperature of the backside aluminum to a high enough temperature to be able to cause burns (something like 80-90C). Not a huge issue if you always use it on a table or something The bottom doesn't get that hot (90C would cause serious problems) but the additional heat is a downside to consider. Too many people are missing the point that Apple deliberately chose not to create a thermal bridge between the CPU and the case for this reason. Apple made the right choice. The Air is designed for minimum size, maximum portability, and fanless operation. If you have use cases that benefit from extended 100% CPU load, get a larger MacBook Pro that has a cooling solution designed to sustain these thermal loads.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Kirby64 4y agoYou're right, on looking back at the threads it was not nearly that hot. But it was elevated enough to cause issues. People reporting their laptops got uncomfortably hot, compared to stock. Looks like the actual point where you start to get problems is quite low, somewhere around ~38C, so if the mod elevated temperatures even to 40-50C, you'd be in heavy discomfort or possible burn territory. This paper talks about skin lesions and burns happening around there: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3853603/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3853603/
- runnerup 4y agoThere’s a time domain to it also. My old T540P Lenovo gave me a giant permanent burn on my thigh because it “sous vide”d me over a 2-3 hour period. Never felt it, because it wasn’t hot enough to register as harmful.
- jeshin 4y agojeeze, what were you wearing at the time in terms of pants?
- walrus01 4y ago> On the downside, it elevated the temperature of the backside aluminum to a high enough temperature to be able to cause burns (something like 80-90C). as this will raise the overall operating temperature of the laptop's battery which is located adjacent in the chassis, I would consider this to be a very bad idea if you value: a) longevity and cycle life of the battery b) battery lifespan/runtime c) lower likelihood of the battery catching on fire and going into thermal runaway on your lap or desk. d) lower likelihood of the battery swelling up into something that looks like a pillow there are very likely a number of solid reasons why the apple design engineers chose not to allow it to get this hot. very solid physics/thermodynamics based science says that the hotter you run a lithium ion or similar battery, and for any extended periods of time, the more dangerous it is, and the worse it will be for the battery's overall lifespan and cycle depth/cycle life.
- bee_rider 4y agoBy backside aluminum, do you mean like... near the hinge on the body side? Or on the back of the screen somehow? Their motherboard is so small. I wonder why they don't put it on the screen side. Benefits would be: * The back of the monitor could be used as a giant heat spreader * Lap would remain cool, and no heat below the keyboard * Maybe some increased commonality with iPad parts?
- vkat 4y agoOne of my biggest complaints with laptops is the heat and that I always end up putting like a book underneath so that my lap isn't in directly contact with the heat. If apple intended to keep the outer shell cooler, I will any day take it over the slightly higher performance that folks are getting with a thermal pad.
- banana_giraffe 4y agoCould this also cause problems for the battery by effectively conducting the heat to it via the bottom panel?
- lgats 4y agoMy 2019 Intel Macbook Pro certainly heats up enough to prevent lap use.