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The great firewall of China prevents most of their citizens from seeing news that isn’t the party line. And if you share it you face criminal charges. Not to me

by jraby3 4y ago

The great firewall of China prevents most of their citizens from seeing news that isn’t the party line. And if you share it you face criminal charges. Not to mention their social ranking system. It’s ridiculous to say the US media is almost as heavily controlled as China.

RobertoG 4y ago
I don't know about USA or China, but in Europe you can't access some Russian media, and it's still not clear to me what is the legal framework that legitimate that. The European commission have that legal capacity? If somebody know why they can do that, I would like to know. https://peoplesdispatch.org/2022/03/03/by-banning-russian-media-outlets-eu-exposes-its-discomfort-with-alternative-narratives-of-the-ukrainian-crisis/ https://peoplesdispatch.org/2022/03/03/by-banning-russian-me...
dylan604 4y ago
But in a way it is as heavily controlled, but just not by the government. Large media conglomerates own such a large percentage of the media outlets that they are literally controlling what is broadcast by using the exact same text and "news" in every single one of their markets. These "local" stations are dicated to what they can air, and forced to carry specific segments whether it is the same pre-produced segment or at the least the same pre-approved copy that the local read verbatim. That is not a free press. That is a press doing the bidding of its corporate overlords
Ansil849 4y ago
> The great firewall of China prevents most of their citizens from seeing news that isn’t the party line Totally not like how access to Russian news outlets has been blocked by parts of the West.
- AyyWS 4y ago
  I just went to RT from the US. This whataboutism doesn't work.
  - Ansil849 4y ago
    I'm so tired of "whataboutism" being used to as some attempt to shut down an argument. It is perfectly valid to point out hypocritical arguments. And it might stun you to know that the West isn't solely composed of the US. Try going to RT from the EU - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:065:FULL&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L... Take special note not just of the block, but of the anticircumvention provisions.
    - noslenwerdna 4y ago
      The grandparent made the broad generalization not the person you are replying to. They said the "west" is blocking RT. It might stun you to learn that the US is part of the west and isn't blocking RT. I don't want to stun you too much, but the west is not some uniform block of countries.
      - Ansil849 4y ago
        > It might stun you to learn that the US is part of the west and isn't blocking RT. Golly gee, you sure got me there on that! Let's rephrase to "parts of the West", what impact does that have on the argument that Western powers engage in media censorship as well? > I don't want to stun you too much, but the west is not some uniform block of countries. LOL. You understand it is _literally_ called the "Western Bloc", right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Bloc
        noslenwerdna 4y ago
        The original comment was "Totally not like how access to Russian news outlets has been blocked by the West." This statement is factually incorrect. I don't see where that argument was actually made. But sure, some western countries have a level of censorship, yes, but that still doesn't approach the level of China. And just because there is a wiki entry called western bloc, doesn't mean the western countries are uniform. The US is pretty well known for having broad, but not absolute, protections for freedom of speech.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Which Russian news outlets are blocked? Can you list them?
  - Ansil849 4y ago
    Sure: RT- Russia Today English RT- Russia Today UK RT - Russia Today Germany RT - Russia Today France RT- Russia Today Spanish Sputnik’ Source: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:065:FULL&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L... Or here's a mass media summary if you don't want to read the official documentation: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-bans-rt-sputnik-banned-over-ukraine-disinformation-2022-03-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-bans-rt-sputnik-bann...
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      I just browsed Russia Today without a VPN. I'm in the US
      - Ansil849 4y ago
        > I'm in the US That's great. The block is in the EU. Which is in...the West.
        2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
        The US is in the west so clearly "the west" hasn't blocked them. A subset of European countries have.
- noslenwerdna 4y ago
  Just pointing out that there was a shadow edit to this comment. It used to say Russian need outlets were blocked by the West. It isn't actually blocked in the US
simiones 4y ago
The degree is usually different, but it is sometimes spectacular how much media collaborates to hide news. Look for any coverage in the US press about the gigantic strikes that workers in India organized in November 2020, possibly involving 250 million workers [0]: there isn't even 1 single article written by any mainstream media in the US (and much of Europe). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_general_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_general_strike
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > The degree is usually different, but it is sometimes spectacular how much media collaborates to hide news. Hiding implies a deliberate act to obscure, but you're example is most likely nothing of the kind. > Look for any coverage in the US press about the gigantic strikes that workers in India organized in November 2020, possibly involving 250 million workers [0]: there isn't even 1 single article written by any mainstream media in the US (and much of Europe). Are you talking about this? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-protest-pollution-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-... Also there was a US presidential election in November 2020, which is the kind of thing that drowns out pretty much every other kind of news story. The fact is that unless an international story has some kind of domestic angle (which includes geopolitics), it probably won't get much attention, because most people just don't care.
  - simiones 4y ago
    > Hiding implies a deliberate act to obscure, but you're example is most likely nothing of the kind. That is exactly what I meant to imply. > Are you talking about this? > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-protest-pollution-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-... No, I am talking about the strikes I linked to, that happened one month before and are not even mentioned in this article; and which involved many many times more people (even if you don't believe the 250 million people claimed by the unions) and all industries in several Indian states. > Also there was a US presidential election in November 2020, which is the kind of thing that drowns out pretty much every other kind of news story. The fact is that unless an international story has some kind of domestic angle (which includes geopolitics), it probably won't get much attention, because most people just don't care. There are many international news agencies that report on, well, international news. Not even one of them reported these strikes, in November 2020 or ever since. I wasn't expecting this to be covered on Tucker Carlson or Rachel Maddow's shows - obviously. But it is impossible that not a single international and economic news organization in the USA (and much of Europe, if I remember correctly) thought it worth reporting that for a few days entire Indian states were shut down.

by jraby3 4y ago

RobertoG 4y ago

I don't know about USA or China, but in Europe you can't access some Russian media, and it's still not clear to me what is the legal framework that legitimate that. The European commission have that legal capacity? If somebody know why they can do that, I would like to know. https://peoplesdispatch.org/2022/03/03/by-banning-russian-media-outlets-eu-exposes-its-discomfort-with-alternative-narratives-of-the-ukrainian-crisis/ https://peoplesdispatch.org/2022/03/03/by-banning-russian-me...

dylan604 4y ago

But in a way it is as heavily controlled, but just not by the government. Large media conglomerates own such a large percentage of the media outlets that they are literally controlling what is broadcast by using the exact same text and "news" in every single one of their markets. These "local" stations are dicated to what they can air, and forced to carry specific segments whether it is the same pre-produced segment or at the least the same pre-approved copy that the local read verbatim. That is not a free press. That is a press doing the bidding of its corporate overlords

Ansil849 4y ago

> The great firewall of China prevents most of their citizens from seeing news that isn’t the party line Totally not like how access to Russian news outlets has been blocked by parts of the West.

AyyWS 4y ago
I just went to RT from the US. This whataboutism doesn't work.
- Ansil849 4y ago
  I'm so tired of "whataboutism" being used to as some attempt to shut down an argument. It is perfectly valid to point out hypocritical arguments. And it might stun you to know that the West isn't solely composed of the US. Try going to RT from the EU - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:065:FULL&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L... Take special note not just of the block, but of the anticircumvention provisions.
  - noslenwerdna 4y ago
    The grandparent made the broad generalization not the person you are replying to. They said the "west" is blocking RT. It might stun you to learn that the US is part of the west and isn't blocking RT. I don't want to stun you too much, but the west is not some uniform block of countries.
    - Ansil849 4y ago
      > It might stun you to learn that the US is part of the west and isn't blocking RT. Golly gee, you sure got me there on that! Let's rephrase to "parts of the West", what impact does that have on the argument that Western powers engage in media censorship as well? > I don't want to stun you too much, but the west is not some uniform block of countries. LOL. You understand it is _literally_ called the "Western Bloc", right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Bloc
      - noslenwerdna 4y ago
        The original comment was "Totally not like how access to Russian news outlets has been blocked by the West." This statement is factually incorrect. I don't see where that argument was actually made. But sure, some western countries have a level of censorship, yes, but that still doesn't approach the level of China. And just because there is a wiki entry called western bloc, doesn't mean the western countries are uniform. The US is pretty well known for having broad, but not absolute, protections for freedom of speech.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
Which Russian news outlets are blocked? Can you list them?
- Ansil849 4y ago
  Sure: RT- Russia Today English RT- Russia Today UK RT - Russia Today Germany RT - Russia Today France RT- Russia Today Spanish Sputnik’ Source: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:065:FULL&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L... Or here's a mass media summary if you don't want to read the official documentation: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-bans-rt-sputnik-banned-over-ukraine-disinformation-2022-03-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-bans-rt-sputnik-bann...
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    I just browsed Russia Today without a VPN. I'm in the US
    - Ansil849 4y ago
      > I'm in the US That's great. The block is in the EU. Which is in...the West.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
        The US is in the west so clearly "the west" hasn't blocked them. A subset of European countries have.
noslenwerdna 4y ago
Just pointing out that there was a shadow edit to this comment. It used to say Russian need outlets were blocked by the West. It isn't actually blocked in the US

simiones 4y ago

The degree is usually different, but it is sometimes spectacular how much media collaborates to hide news. Look for any coverage in the US press about the gigantic strikes that workers in India organized in November 2020, possibly involving 250 million workers [0]: there isn't even 1 single article written by any mainstream media in the US (and much of Europe). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_general_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_general_strike

tablespoon 4y ago
> The degree is usually different, but it is sometimes spectacular how much media collaborates to hide news. Hiding implies a deliberate act to obscure, but you're example is most likely nothing of the kind. > Look for any coverage in the US press about the gigantic strikes that workers in India organized in November 2020, possibly involving 250 million workers [0]: there isn't even 1 single article written by any mainstream media in the US (and much of Europe). Are you talking about this? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-protest-pollution-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-... Also there was a US presidential election in November 2020, which is the kind of thing that drowns out pretty much every other kind of news story. The fact is that unless an international story has some kind of domestic angle (which includes geopolitics), it probably won't get much attention, because most people just don't care.
- simiones 4y ago
  > Hiding implies a deliberate act to obscure, but you're example is most likely nothing of the kind. That is exactly what I meant to imply. > Are you talking about this? > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-protest-pollution-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/world/asia/india-farmers-... No, I am talking about the strikes I linked to, that happened one month before and are not even mentioned in this article; and which involved many many times more people (even if you don't believe the 250 million people claimed by the unions) and all industries in several Indian states. > Also there was a US presidential election in November 2020, which is the kind of thing that drowns out pretty much every other kind of news story. The fact is that unless an international story has some kind of domestic angle (which includes geopolitics), it probably won't get much attention, because most people just don't care. There are many international news agencies that report on, well, international news. Not even one of them reported these strikes, in November 2020 or ever since. I wasn't expecting this to be covered on Tucker Carlson or Rachel Maddow's shows - obviously. But it is impossible that not a single international and economic news organization in the USA (and much of Europe, if I remember correctly) thought it worth reporting that for a few days entire Indian states were shut down.