6 ms·

It's funny, no one in the UK cares about real actual privacy, yet we're obsessed about the "dangers" of tracking cookies. I don't know how true this is outside

by kypro 4y ago

It's funny, no one in the UK cares about real actual privacy, yet we're obsessed about the "dangers" of tracking cookies. I don't know how true this is outside the UK, but here people are generally happy for the government to monitor their internet and mobile communications, they're happy for supermarkets to use facial recognition cameras to identify them at checkout, they're happy for CCTV to monitor their every move, but if Google tracks your search results, that's going too far. Even on the topic of encryption, most people don't really care as long as it's not Facebook or Google reading their messages. If you're any other business or the government, then go on ahead... Collect our biometric data, read our emails, track our movements. No need for consent.

b1476 4y ago
You’re cherry picking a subset of people there. I imagine some view it with a sort of mild indifference, but there are people who are concerned about their own privacy from both government and big tech. I generally disregard any sentence that starts with “most people..” because it usually can’t be backed up with sources.
- Dma54rhs 4y ago
  The newer generation is definitely very much ok with it. I've stopped taking or discussing privacy issues at certain circles because I basically get called paranoid boomer.
  - westmeal 4y ago
    If the newer generation is OK with it then we're just going to be compost for the future that's ahead.
    - cokeandpepsi 4y ago
      tbh they don't really know what privacy is
      - hluska 4y ago
        Would you mind explaining this? My initial instinct was to disagree but I’m old and likely don’t understand. I’d love to hear more.
        knaik94 4y ago
        I don't think that response is accurate. I'm not old and I can say electronic privacy is something my friends and I do care about. I'm not sure why people are making these kinds of generalizations. Literary analysis of George Orwell's 1984 is part of the standard curriculum in the US for high school students.
        hluska 4y ago
        I really appreciate this reply. I didn’t realize that 1984 was part of the standard US curriculum- that’s interesting. Thanks for engaging with me!
  - knaik94 4y ago
    I have had a much different experience, people say they miss the old internet when things were much more anonymous. They worry for the coming generation because of how much of life is broadcasted and preserved online via social media. The new generation isn't okay with it at all.
    - _abox 4y ago
      But the new new generation won't even remember the old internet. They won't know any better. I think this generation is now emerging and this is what the OP refers to.
      - knaik94 4y ago
        This generation's parents are part of the generation that grew with the old internet. There's no time period where people will no longer know the consequences of not having privacy online. And if they do, they'll one day reach an age and regret something they said and wish it didn't exist online. They'll end up relearning the lesson. There's a strong "woke" culture that isn't going away with coming generations. The right to privacy is a pillar that people will always fight to protect.
godelski 4y ago
I think we only need to look at China to understand why people have these attitudes, and I think it is an important lesson to learn. There's two critical components to this. First, the Chinese people trust their government. They are not afraid of that information being used against them, unless they are doing something wrong (and wrong to the collective people, not just something illegal). They directly see how surveillance has reduced child trafficking, theft, and other such hard to trace crimes. This builds confidence in their government and confidence that the power is being used for good. Second, for your average Chinese person, life has gotten substantially better. A significant amount of people have been lifted out of poverty. It is not uncommon to hear about people being born in rural impoverished farms and then owning Ferraris when they are older (not your average case, to be clear). This further builds confidence in the government because things have gotten so much better. But China has something to learn from the West too. We've already lifted the vast majority of our people out of poverty. It is harder to continually improve peoples' lives when you have to invent new things rather than play catch up. Hyper-growth is unsustainable and eventually China will have the same slower growth as the West (be that 5 years or 50 years). People get used to whatever situation they are in and expect different things. People in the West don't have as much trust for their governments and are more afraid of turnkey tyranny than they are of gaining a better life. In other words, they are more afraid of losing their good lives. With the West I think we can see the connection between governments and companies. We were fine with those companies taking our data because they made our lives better. But things have stagnated now and the bad outweighs the good. We've seen these companies abuse their power, but in many ways we still trust the governments to reign them in. But you're right, governments are also capable of the same abuse, or even more. That's the danger of turnkey tyranny though, that it is the actions you give to leaders you trust that are abused. It flies under the radar and those powers are given with good intentions. I also think tech illiteracy plays a major role here, but I've already written a lot (and barely broached the subject)
- knaik94 4y ago
  Surveillance has made it easier to prosecute and encamp "unwanted" religious minorities such as the Uyghurs. You're making a lot of bold generalizations that don't hold much merit if you look deeper into the actual policies in China right now. China is considered one of the countries of most concern because not enough is being done to meaningfully combat human trafficking. Life getting better for the layperson has nothing to do with China's strong surveillance and media control policy. Chinese people trust their government due to a strong culture of nationalism.
gatvol 4y ago
Most people don't care about it... until they're personally impacted.. and by then it's too late.
knaik94 4y ago
The people of UK do care actually and see many of the policies of the government as draconian and really out of touch. They do care about privacy. The UK government has been pushing with media campaigns to try to undermine the necessity of E2E encryption. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-uk-government-publicity-blitz-to-undermine-privacy-encryption-1285453/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-u... (Jan 2022) This kind narrative is being pushed by the US, UK, and Australia right now. Unfortunately for the people in Australia, some dangerous bills have already been passed. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/25/australian-powers-to-spy-on-cybercrime-suspects-given-green-light https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/25/austr...
GekkePrutser 4y ago
In the Netherlands people are often accused (in discussion fora) of the opposite: complaining about extensions to government oversight but putting their personal lives on Google and Facebook. I don't like either myself. I think the UK has long been a hotspot of surveillance and CCTV and people have got used to it. But I never will. Luckily I don't live in the UK and I avoid visiting it.
voidr 4y ago
Google is a foreign company commanded by US interests, why would a UK citizen trust them? When the police rapidly catch murderers, you really get to appreciate the usefulness of those CCTV cameras. The anti-encryption attitude is mainly a Tory thing and most people in general just don't understand encryption.

by kypro 4y ago

b1476 4y ago

You’re cherry picking a subset of people there. I imagine some view it with a sort of mild indifference, but there are people who are concerned about their own privacy from both government and big tech. I generally disregard any sentence that starts with “most people..” because it usually can’t be backed up with sources.

Dma54rhs 4y ago
The newer generation is definitely very much ok with it. I've stopped taking or discussing privacy issues at certain circles because I basically get called paranoid boomer.
- westmeal 4y ago
  If the newer generation is OK with it then we're just going to be compost for the future that's ahead.
  - cokeandpepsi 4y ago
    tbh they don't really know what privacy is
    - hluska 4y ago
      Would you mind explaining this? My initial instinct was to disagree but I’m old and likely don’t understand. I’d love to hear more.
      - knaik94 4y ago
        I don't think that response is accurate. I'm not old and I can say electronic privacy is something my friends and I do care about. I'm not sure why people are making these kinds of generalizations. Literary analysis of George Orwell's 1984 is part of the standard curriculum in the US for high school students.
        hluska 4y ago
        I really appreciate this reply. I didn’t realize that 1984 was part of the standard US curriculum- that’s interesting. Thanks for engaging with me!
- knaik94 4y ago
  I have had a much different experience, people say they miss the old internet when things were much more anonymous. They worry for the coming generation because of how much of life is broadcasted and preserved online via social media. The new generation isn't okay with it at all.
  - _abox 4y ago
    But the new new generation won't even remember the old internet. They won't know any better. I think this generation is now emerging and this is what the OP refers to.
    - knaik94 4y ago
      This generation's parents are part of the generation that grew with the old internet. There's no time period where people will no longer know the consequences of not having privacy online. And if they do, they'll one day reach an age and regret something they said and wish it didn't exist online. They'll end up relearning the lesson. There's a strong "woke" culture that isn't going away with coming generations. The right to privacy is a pillar that people will always fight to protect.

godelski 4y ago

I think we only need to look at China to understand why people have these attitudes, and I think it is an important lesson to learn. There's two critical components to this. First, the Chinese people trust their government. They are not afraid of that information being used against them, unless they are doing something wrong (and wrong to the collective people, not just something illegal). They directly see how surveillance has reduced child trafficking, theft, and other such hard to trace crimes. This builds confidence in their government and confidence that the power is being used for good. Second, for your average Chinese person, life has gotten substantially better. A significant amount of people have been lifted out of poverty. It is not uncommon to hear about people being born in rural impoverished farms and then owning Ferraris when they are older (not your average case, to be clear). This further builds confidence in the government because things have gotten so much better. But China has something to learn from the West too. We've already lifted the vast majority of our people out of poverty. It is harder to continually improve peoples' lives when you have to invent new things rather than play catch up. Hyper-growth is unsustainable and eventually China will have the same slower growth as the West (be that 5 years or 50 years). People get used to whatever situation they are in and expect different things. People in the West don't have as much trust for their governments and are more afraid of turnkey tyranny than they are of gaining a better life. In other words, they are more afraid of losing their good lives. With the West I think we can see the connection between governments and companies. We were fine with those companies taking our data because they made our lives better. But things have stagnated now and the bad outweighs the good. We've seen these companies abuse their power, but in many ways we still trust the governments to reign them in. But you're right, governments are also capable of the same abuse, or even more. That's the danger of turnkey tyranny though, that it is the actions you give to leaders you trust that are abused. It flies under the radar and those powers are given with good intentions. I also think tech illiteracy plays a major role here, but I've already written a lot (and barely broached the subject)

knaik94 4y ago
Surveillance has made it easier to prosecute and encamp "unwanted" religious minorities such as the Uyghurs. You're making a lot of bold generalizations that don't hold much merit if you look deeper into the actual policies in China right now. China is considered one of the countries of most concern because not enough is being done to meaningfully combat human trafficking. Life getting better for the layperson has nothing to do with China's strong surveillance and media control policy. Chinese people trust their government due to a strong culture of nationalism.

gatvol 4y ago

Most people don't care about it... until they're personally impacted.. and by then it's too late.

knaik94 4y ago

The people of UK do care actually and see many of the policies of the government as draconian and really out of touch. They do care about privacy. The UK government has been pushing with media campaigns to try to undermine the necessity of E2E encryption. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-uk-government-publicity-blitz-to-undermine-privacy-encryption-1285453/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-u... (Jan 2022) This kind narrative is being pushed by the US, UK, and Australia right now. Unfortunately for the people in Australia, some dangerous bills have already been passed. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/25/australian-powers-to-spy-on-cybercrime-suspects-given-green-light https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/25/austr...

GekkePrutser 4y ago

In the Netherlands people are often accused (in discussion fora) of the opposite: complaining about extensions to government oversight but putting their personal lives on Google and Facebook. I don't like either myself. I think the UK has long been a hotspot of surveillance and CCTV and people have got used to it. But I never will. Luckily I don't live in the UK and I avoid visiting it.

voidr 4y ago

Google is a foreign company commanded by US interests, why would a UK citizen trust them? When the police rapidly catch murderers, you really get to appreciate the usefulness of those CCTV cameras. The anti-encryption attitude is mainly a Tory thing and most people in general just don't understand encryption.