5 ms·

Three arrows founders break silence over collapse of crypto hedge fund

72 points by kazanins 4y ago

PaywallBuster 4y ago
https://archive.is/4hmAI https://archive.is/4hmAI
alphabetting 4y ago
He rejected the perception that he enjoyed an extravagant lifestyle, noting that he biked to work and back every day and that his family “only has two homes in Singapore.” Ah yes, living the relatable humble lifestyle while awaiting delivery on the $50M yacht you bought with allegedly borrowed crypto funds.
- JimDabell 4y ago
  > S'pore's private property second-most expensive in the world > Singapore’s average property price is US$874,372 (S$1,183,375), with an average price of US$1,063 (S$1,439) per square foot. — https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-worlds-second-most-expensive-housing-market-cbre-report https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-worlds-secon...
  - esotericimpl 4y ago
    Most Singaporeans are in subsidized housing only the wealthy buy property, i think its something like 80% of all housing is public in singapore.
  - alphabetting 4y ago
    From a quick Google I see one of the homes was $35M. Confirmed blue collar guy.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Those numbers are a bit misleading because ~80% of Singaporeans live in government housing built by the Singapore Housing & Development Board (HDB) and offered below market rate. [1] It's pretty clear these clowns weren't among them. As an aside, the HDB is a very effective housing policy for Singapore. The remaining 20% of Singaporeans - primarily the super-wealthy - live in a free-market-free-for-all. That average property price per square foot is high, yes, but that's likely the price for non-HDB housing - while the vast majority live in HDB housing. And very nice housing at that! The history of the HDB is really fascinating for those who care about housing policy. [edit] tl;dr that's not the price of housing in Singapore so much as it's the price for the top 20% of housing in Singapore. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board
    - andreareina 4y ago
      It's a lot harder for today's youth to get an HDB apartment directly from the government and the prices for resale units are just as inflated as private housing.
      - TristanBall 4y ago
        Do you know why? Has the government policy changed? Building fewer new properties?
        andreareina 4y ago
        Fewer new builds I think. Not many empty lots left.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
headsoup 4y ago
"Speaking from an undisclosed location" says it all.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
Is the expectation the Emirates won’t extradite? These clowns have left a black eye on Singapore’s MAS. (In their favour, they haven’t pissed off the U.S., who could actually force the issue.)
gizajob 4y ago
"exacerbated a selloff that foisted steep losses on mom-and-pop owners of Bitcoin and other tokens" I find this slightly tendentious language to use – there are zero mom-and-pop type investors in crypto, just blind speculators gambling on an essentially worthless Ponzi with close to zero real-world utility. Mom-and-pops put their hard-earned assets into stable long-term stores of safe value, not digital beans. "The fool and his money are easily parted" is something I want to write on almost every crypto horror-story that appears on HN. The PhD-level quants at the serious banks and funds must lick their lips every time they hear about companies like 3AC, and rightfully hammer the arse out of them at a second's opportunity. A better name would have been 1AC – an arrow pointing right down to minus-zero.
- anonymousab 4y ago
  > Mom-and-pops put their hard-earned assets into stable long-term stores of safe value The average person is simply not going to be savvy enough - nor have the wherewithal in a life trying to stay above poverty - to steel themselves against all of the advertising and pressures and manipulations that the crypto crowd - the vested interests and ultrabillionaire VCs are bringing to bare. When suddenly every magazine in the gas station, commercial on tv, or major influential figure you look up to (or are aware of) is talking about this obvious grand new investment for the average man, when people you trust in your social circles are bringing this all to you with continual pressure at all angles as the solution to your honestly miserable day to day, and your 9-6 retail job with an hour commute is filled with coworkers telling you about their success with this golden ticket and billboards after billboards normalizing the stuff - well, it's reasonable that the average person would bow to such systemic and overwhelming and hyperoptimized systemic, social and psychological pressure.
  - ansible 4y ago
    > When suddenly every magazine in the gas station, ... Yeah, I was surprised by this the first time I saw it recently. Buying crypto (like Dogecoin, for $DEITY's sake!) at some ATM-like terminal... pretending this is a good idea for everyone... they are trying to attract the very least-informed "investors" in existence. And of course these "investors" are not going to real a miles-long Terms of Service that essentially boils down to "you will probably lose all your money, and there is no recourse". My goodness. It occurs to me (again) that I could be very, very wealthy indeed if I'd only give up my morals. I mean, really, why shouldn't I do that? With a lot of money, I could have some fun times before I die.
carlineng 4y ago
"But then yeah, after that day, when, you know, Bitcoin went from $30,000 to $20,000, you know, that, that was extremely painful for us. And that was in, that ended up being kind of the nail in the coffin." Bitcoin has had 10 drawdowns of 40% or more in its short history of 13 years [0], and yet a mere drop of 33% caused them major problems. Doesn't sound to me like they can blame "a systemic failure of risk management"; more like a profound lack of understanding by these two individuals. [0]: https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/analysing-bitcoin-drawdowns https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/analysing-bitcoin-draw...
- v0idzer0 4y ago
  More like simple greed. They were over leveraged, because they wanted more money. I doubt they were ignorant of the possibility of a 33%+ drawdown. They just couldn’t resist the money.

72 points by kazanins 4y ago

https://archive.is/4hmAI https://archive.is/4hmAI

He rejected the perception that he enjoyed an extravagant lifestyle, noting that he biked to work and back every day and that his family “only has two homes in Singapore.” Ah yes, living the relatable humble lifestyle while awaiting delivery on the $50M yacht you bought with allegedly borrowed crypto funds.

JimDabell 4y ago
> S'pore's private property second-most expensive in the world > Singapore’s average property price is US$874,372 (S$1,183,375), with an average price of US$1,063 (S$1,439) per square foot. — https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-worlds-second-most-expensive-housing-market-cbre-report https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-worlds-secon...
- esotericimpl 4y ago
  Most Singaporeans are in subsidized housing only the wealthy buy property, i think its something like 80% of all housing is public in singapore.
- alphabetting 4y ago
  From a quick Google I see one of the homes was $35M. Confirmed blue collar guy.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Those numbers are a bit misleading because ~80% of Singaporeans live in government housing built by the Singapore Housing & Development Board (HDB) and offered below market rate. [1] It's pretty clear these clowns weren't among them. As an aside, the HDB is a very effective housing policy for Singapore. The remaining 20% of Singaporeans - primarily the super-wealthy - live in a free-market-free-for-all. That average property price per square foot is high, yes, but that's likely the price for non-HDB housing - while the vast majority live in HDB housing. And very nice housing at that! The history of the HDB is really fascinating for those who care about housing policy. [edit] tl;dr that's not the price of housing in Singapore so much as it's the price for the top 20% of housing in Singapore. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board
  - andreareina 4y ago
    It's a lot harder for today's youth to get an HDB apartment directly from the government and the prices for resale units are just as inflated as private housing.
    - TristanBall 4y ago
      Do you know why? Has the government policy changed? Building fewer new properties?
      - andreareina 4y ago
        Fewer new builds I think. Not many empty lots left.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

headsoup 4y ago

"Speaking from an undisclosed location" says it all.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

Is the expectation the Emirates won’t extradite? These clowns have left a black eye on Singapore’s MAS. (In their favour, they haven’t pissed off the U.S., who could actually force the issue.)

gizajob 4y ago

"exacerbated a selloff that foisted steep losses on mom-and-pop owners of Bitcoin and other tokens" I find this slightly tendentious language to use – there are zero mom-and-pop type investors in crypto, just blind speculators gambling on an essentially worthless Ponzi with close to zero real-world utility. Mom-and-pops put their hard-earned assets into stable long-term stores of safe value, not digital beans. "The fool and his money are easily parted" is something I want to write on almost every crypto horror-story that appears on HN. The PhD-level quants at the serious banks and funds must lick their lips every time they hear about companies like 3AC, and rightfully hammer the arse out of them at a second's opportunity. A better name would have been 1AC – an arrow pointing right down to minus-zero.

anonymousab 4y ago
> Mom-and-pops put their hard-earned assets into stable long-term stores of safe value The average person is simply not going to be savvy enough - nor have the wherewithal in a life trying to stay above poverty - to steel themselves against all of the advertising and pressures and manipulations that the crypto crowd - the vested interests and ultrabillionaire VCs are bringing to bare. When suddenly every magazine in the gas station, commercial on tv, or major influential figure you look up to (or are aware of) is talking about this obvious grand new investment for the average man, when people you trust in your social circles are bringing this all to you with continual pressure at all angles as the solution to your honestly miserable day to day, and your 9-6 retail job with an hour commute is filled with coworkers telling you about their success with this golden ticket and billboards after billboards normalizing the stuff - well, it's reasonable that the average person would bow to such systemic and overwhelming and hyperoptimized systemic, social and psychological pressure.
- ansible 4y ago
  > When suddenly every magazine in the gas station, ... Yeah, I was surprised by this the first time I saw it recently. Buying crypto (like Dogecoin, for $DEITY's sake!) at some ATM-like terminal... pretending this is a good idea for everyone... they are trying to attract the very least-informed "investors" in existence. And of course these "investors" are not going to real a miles-long Terms of Service that essentially boils down to "you will probably lose all your money, and there is no recourse". My goodness. It occurs to me (again) that I could be very, very wealthy indeed if I'd only give up my morals. I mean, really, why shouldn't I do that? With a lot of money, I could have some fun times before I die.

carlineng 4y ago

"But then yeah, after that day, when, you know, Bitcoin went from $30,000 to $20,000, you know, that, that was extremely painful for us. And that was in, that ended up being kind of the nail in the coffin." Bitcoin has had 10 drawdowns of 40% or more in its short history of 13 years [0], and yet a mere drop of 33% caused them major problems. Doesn't sound to me like they can blame "a systemic failure of risk management"; more like a profound lack of understanding by these two individuals. [0]: https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/analysing-bitcoin-drawdowns https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/analysing-bitcoin-draw...

v0idzer0 4y ago
More like simple greed. They were over leveraged, because they wanted more money. I doubt they were ignorant of the possibility of a 33%+ drawdown. They just couldn’t resist the money.