3 ms·

> Less than two years later, Oregon is suffering through the predictable results of this experiment: overdoses are skyrocketing, violent crime is rising, and vi

> Less than two years later, Oregon is suffering through the predictable results of this experiment: overdoses are skyrocketing, violent crime is rising, and virtually nobody is getting treatment. This is also true across the country, the vast majority of which have not decriminalized anything. And if property crimes are rising, the real question is why the people committing those crimes are not being arrested and brought to Justice. You don’t need to arrest people for drug possession to prevent them from committing multiple real crimes. You need to arrest them for committing real crimes. Which reveals the real attraction of drug arrests. They are easy. Which allows the police and the prosecutors to goose their numbers and look like they’re doing something, as opposed to solving and prosecuting real crime, which is harder to do.

addicted 4y ago
The article he links to actually refutes pretty much everything the author says. https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/05/13/overdose-deaths-rose-336-in-oregon-last-year/ https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/05/13/overdose-deaths-rose-3... Oregon had the 5th largest rise in overdoses behind such progressive luminaries as Alaska, Kansas, South Dakota and Vermont. I may be wrong, but I doubt any of these states decriminalized hard drugs over this period. And the article points out the massive jump in ODs is due to a significant influx of Fentanyl in Oregon, which until recently had been largely an East coast phenomenon.
- addicted 4y ago
  What the fentanyl situation shows is that the real problem with the various decriminalization efforts in the US is that they don’t go far enough. They also need to be providing legal, vetted, licensed channels that supply drugs to the users so people aren’t using drugs laced with fentanyl. That’s the quickest, easiest and probably the least likely to succeed solution.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    This is not how decriminalization of hard drugs has succeeded in any other country. Heroin abuse is illegal in Portugal, as is the unauthorized posession of fentanyl, MDMA, cocaine, crack, etc. They won't put you in prison, but they'll take you to jail. Addicts are compelled to enter treatment: https://beportugal.com/portugal-drug-laws/ https://beportugal.com/portugal-drug-laws/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ldjif4/the_portugal_model_on_drugs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ldjif4/the_portugal... San Francisco is doing all they can to pursue the sort of plan you propose. It isn't working. Drug abuse and related crimes have only gotten worse. "I heard about Portugal on a podcast" drug policy has been a disaster.
    - cannabis_sam 4y ago
      Switzerland pioneered this approach, and it has been implemented in Germany, Netherlands, Canada and Denmark.[0] What does Portugal have to do with it? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment
      - deepdriver 4y ago
        There is a difference between legalizing recreational heroin, as the parent comment and activists like Dr. Carl Hart suggest, and providing maintenance doses in a medical setting under supervised and monitored conditions. Switzerland does the latter. Portgul is relevant because their program of decriminalization is frequently referenced in media and by US policymakers.
  - pstuart 4y ago
    Hear, hear! Society is just fine with people killing themselves with drugs as long as they are alcohol and tobacco. The problem is too much money is made off the current situation and most the population has been brainwashed into thinking that making drugs illegal will protect us from them.
- zaptheimpaler 4y ago
  Hear, hear! Fentanyl has destroyed every city it touches in the same way, regardless of whether drugs are decriminalized or not. The cops don't have the budget to deal with it, all crime rises and huge swaths of the city become uninhabitable/unsafe for everyone. That's clearly the root of the problem. Another solution might be for heavy federal intervention in finding and dismantling the fentanyl distribution network and throwing everything at them. Those guys need to be jailed for life or killed.
  - pstuart 4y ago
    Another solution might be to allow opiate addicts to have access to safer versions (e.g., pharma grade and/or grow their own poppies). My brother died of a heroin overdose many years ago -- it was illegal then (of course) and the country spent billions on "drug enforcement" but it didn't stop the black market from providing him a dangerous drug with no way of knowing purity. Drug addiction is a health issue and by criminalizing it we don't make it go away, we just make it more expensive and more destructive to society.
deepdriver 4y ago
IIRC homicides were up 30% nationwide, but 80% in Portland, OR. That seems like it still stands out from the trend. Dunno about other stats, but property crime tends to correlate with open-air drug use.
- addicted 4y ago
  It seems you’re recollecting numbers from this article. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2022-01-15/2021-was-a-record-year-for-homicides-in-portland https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2022... 2021 did indeed see a growth in homicides over 2020. But 2020 saw an even greater growth in homicides over 2019. Considering the measure was passed in Nov 2020, it’s pretty likely that the rise of homicides in Portland had causes other than Measure 110.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    Yes, looks like the 80% number is from 2021. Here are more recent figures: >The homicide rate in the City of Portland is up 207% according to a new report released this morning by Mayor Wheeler's office. https://twitter.com/KATUNews/status/1548387567015383040 https://twitter.com/KATUNews/status/1548387567015383040

addicted 4y ago

The article he links to actually refutes pretty much everything the author says. https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/05/13/overdose-deaths-rose-336-in-oregon-last-year/ https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/05/13/overdose-deaths-rose-3... Oregon had the 5th largest rise in overdoses behind such progressive luminaries as Alaska, Kansas, South Dakota and Vermont. I may be wrong, but I doubt any of these states decriminalized hard drugs over this period. And the article points out the massive jump in ODs is due to a significant influx of Fentanyl in Oregon, which until recently had been largely an East coast phenomenon.

addicted 4y ago
What the fentanyl situation shows is that the real problem with the various decriminalization efforts in the US is that they don’t go far enough. They also need to be providing legal, vetted, licensed channels that supply drugs to the users so people aren’t using drugs laced with fentanyl. That’s the quickest, easiest and probably the least likely to succeed solution.
- deepdriver 4y ago
  This is not how decriminalization of hard drugs has succeeded in any other country. Heroin abuse is illegal in Portugal, as is the unauthorized posession of fentanyl, MDMA, cocaine, crack, etc. They won't put you in prison, but they'll take you to jail. Addicts are compelled to enter treatment: https://beportugal.com/portugal-drug-laws/ https://beportugal.com/portugal-drug-laws/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ldjif4/the_portugal_model_on_drugs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ldjif4/the_portugal... San Francisco is doing all they can to pursue the sort of plan you propose. It isn't working. Drug abuse and related crimes have only gotten worse. "I heard about Portugal on a podcast" drug policy has been a disaster.
  - cannabis_sam 4y ago
    Switzerland pioneered this approach, and it has been implemented in Germany, Netherlands, Canada and Denmark.[0] What does Portugal have to do with it? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment
    - deepdriver 4y ago
      There is a difference between legalizing recreational heroin, as the parent comment and activists like Dr. Carl Hart suggest, and providing maintenance doses in a medical setting under supervised and monitored conditions. Switzerland does the latter. Portgul is relevant because their program of decriminalization is frequently referenced in media and by US policymakers.
- pstuart 4y ago
  Hear, hear! Society is just fine with people killing themselves with drugs as long as they are alcohol and tobacco. The problem is too much money is made off the current situation and most the population has been brainwashed into thinking that making drugs illegal will protect us from them.
zaptheimpaler 4y ago
Hear, hear! Fentanyl has destroyed every city it touches in the same way, regardless of whether drugs are decriminalized or not. The cops don't have the budget to deal with it, all crime rises and huge swaths of the city become uninhabitable/unsafe for everyone. That's clearly the root of the problem. Another solution might be for heavy federal intervention in finding and dismantling the fentanyl distribution network and throwing everything at them. Those guys need to be jailed for life or killed.
- pstuart 4y ago
  Another solution might be to allow opiate addicts to have access to safer versions (e.g., pharma grade and/or grow their own poppies). My brother died of a heroin overdose many years ago -- it was illegal then (of course) and the country spent billions on "drug enforcement" but it didn't stop the black market from providing him a dangerous drug with no way of knowing purity. Drug addiction is a health issue and by criminalizing it we don't make it go away, we just make it more expensive and more destructive to society.

deepdriver 4y ago

IIRC homicides were up 30% nationwide, but 80% in Portland, OR. That seems like it still stands out from the trend. Dunno about other stats, but property crime tends to correlate with open-air drug use.

addicted 4y ago
It seems you’re recollecting numbers from this article. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2022-01-15/2021-was-a-record-year-for-homicides-in-portland https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2022... 2021 did indeed see a growth in homicides over 2020. But 2020 saw an even greater growth in homicides over 2019. Considering the measure was passed in Nov 2020, it’s pretty likely that the rise of homicides in Portland had causes other than Measure 110.
- deepdriver 4y ago
  Yes, looks like the 80% number is from 2021. Here are more recent figures: >The homicide rate in the City of Portland is up 207% according to a new report released this morning by Mayor Wheeler's office. https://twitter.com/KATUNews/status/1548387567015383040 https://twitter.com/KATUNews/status/1548387567015383040