4 ms·

are the results different? i cant believe in usa the divide between black and white are bigger than being poor or middle class. certantly there are certain big

by kwere 4y ago

are the results different? i cant believe in usa the divide between black and white are bigger than being poor or middle class. certantly there are certain big picture "identity" dinamics (or the remaints) at plays, but to solve social issues the solution are simple and proven across countries and time. lift the poor out of poverty with economic and social chances (effective education is a simple solution) and control the problems originated by poverty in those communities by law and by "social" investments. the CRT discourse looks, behave? and talks like a divide et impera

greedo 4y ago
I think you're underestimating the effect of racism in the US. The economic and social chances you're using as a remedy for poverty are absent for many minorities, and the CRT discourse is all about why. There's a huge contingent in the US that believes that any attempt to address "the problems originated by poverty in those communities by law and by "social" investments" is socialism, or reverse racism or giving preferential treatment to minorities.
- ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
  Is CRT specifically actionable? Does it suggest anything we can do for racial disparities (besides awareness) that we don't need to do for poverty anyway? And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa (i.e. poor American blacks vs. rich African blacks)? I hear that despite Harvard students being 15% black, the number of undergrads actually descended from slaves can be counted on one's hands.
  - pxc 4y ago
    (I'm not sure that you need this additional context, but benefit from it) > Is CRT specifically actionable? Setting aside for a moment what is CRT, there are debates about problems related to actionability in different accounts of racism on the left. One critique of some accounts is that they are too pessimistic, too mysterious, and too inactionable. You might find this read interesting as an example: https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-afro-pessimism-reparations-class-struggle https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-... > And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa Some black activists, especially among those demanding reparations for slavery, have sought to form a movement around this question. It's called 'The American Descendants of Slaves' movement. If you Google 'ADOS' you can find movement websites and both sides in various debates
    - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
      Thank you for the article. That was up my alley.
  - spicymaki 4y ago
    > Does it suggest anything we can do for racial disparities (besides awareness) that we don't need to do for poverty anyway? Why not do both? > And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa Slavery impacted affected West Africa as well. The trade eventually destroyed communities leaving them vulnerable to colonization and exploitation. Some African countries have former slaves e.g. Liberia. Individual slaves were traded multiple times across different countries. Do you include slaves when America was a British colony or only after the revolutionary war. I assume Affirmative action policies pertain to current racism not just past racism.
    - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
      Thank you for the coherent defense of a pan-African-American broad affirmative action. I haven't seen that argument made clearly before.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  I believe CRT underlines and fortifies issues facing minorities. It cements them as minorities not having a stake in culture.

by kwere 4y ago

greedo 4y ago

I think you're underestimating the effect of racism in the US. The economic and social chances you're using as a remedy for poverty are absent for many minorities, and the CRT discourse is all about why. There's a huge contingent in the US that believes that any attempt to address "the problems originated by poverty in those communities by law and by "social" investments" is socialism, or reverse racism or giving preferential treatment to minorities.

ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
Is CRT specifically actionable? Does it suggest anything we can do for racial disparities (besides awareness) that we don't need to do for poverty anyway? And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa (i.e. poor American blacks vs. rich African blacks)? I hear that despite Harvard students being 15% black, the number of undergrads actually descended from slaves can be counted on one's hands.
- pxc 4y ago
  (I'm not sure that you need this additional context, but benefit from it) > Is CRT specifically actionable? Setting aside for a moment what is CRT, there are debates about problems related to actionability in different accounts of racism on the left. One critique of some accounts is that they are too pessimistic, too mysterious, and too inactionable. You might find this read interesting as an example: https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-afro-pessimism-reparations-class-struggle https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-... > And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa Some black activists, especially among those demanding reparations for slavery, have sought to form a movement around this question. It's called 'The American Descendants of Slaves' movement. If you Google 'ADOS' you can find movement websites and both sides in various debates
  - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
    Thank you for the article. That was up my alley.
- spicymaki 4y ago
  > Does it suggest anything we can do for racial disparities (besides awareness) that we don't need to do for poverty anyway? Why not do both? > And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa Slavery impacted affected West Africa as well. The trade eventually destroyed communities leaving them vulnerable to colonization and exploitation. Some African countries have former slaves e.g. Liberia. Individual slaves were traded multiple times across different countries. Do you include slaves when America was a British colony or only after the revolutionary war. I assume Affirmative action policies pertain to current racism not just past racism.
  - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
    Thank you for the coherent defense of a pan-African-American broad affirmative action. I haven't seen that argument made clearly before.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
I believe CRT underlines and fortifies issues facing minorities. It cements them as minorities not having a stake in culture.