3 ms·

The thing is, there's no gaurantee that google nor microsoft nor apple do anything more. With products like nextcloud, at least you can see exactly what's going

The thing is, there's no gaurantee that google nor microsoft nor apple do anything more. With products like nextcloud, at least you can see exactly what's going on. We already know google, microsoft and apple have unfettered access to your data too. With self hosting, at least I have a chance of knowing when my data's being monitored & I can choose increasingly severe security around that system. The big players can only offer promises with little to no way for us to verify the truth of any one of their statements. So, unless the big players offer e2ee as a default, it's best to assume the worst from them. With nextcloud it's far less necessary if you're rolling your own (but it supports a form of encryption anyhow)

jeffbee 4y ago
> at least I have a chance of knowing when my data's being monitored C'mon really. The whole central point of this euro scaremongering is that Google will turn over your data to intelligence agencies when U.S. court orders it to do so. Now imagine that for whatever fanciful and obviously highly unlikely reason the C.I.A. wants your PDFs. You are claiming this will be visible to you, that you will be able to defend yourself against hardware supply chain attacks, attacks on the media you downloaded to install CrapNux on your servers, attacks against your NextCloud auto-updates, attacks against the whole rest of your software supply chain, social engineering attacks against your sysadmins, attacks against your hard disk drive waste stream, and all the rest of it? And you will be able to achieve this on the budget on a Dutch primary school? Look, I think it would be cool if nation-sized bureaucracies had the doctrines and practices that allowed them to be actually safer than the cloud, but as it stands they do not.
- ls15 4y ago
  > The whole central point of this euro scaremongering is that Google will turn over your data to intelligence agencies when U.S. court orders it to do so. I am sure, Google has ways to abuse data that do not include any courts.
- freeflight 4y ago
  > The whole central point of this euro scaremongering is that Google will turn over your data to intelligence agencies when U.S. court orders it to do so. Euro scaremongering? [0] [1] Particularly that court mention is weird, considering how the FISA court is very much just a rubberstamp formality. > Now imagine that for whatever fanciful and obviously highly unlikely reason the C.I.A. wants your PDFs. That "fanciful reason" could be that my company developed a breakthrough technology/medication/chemical. Which is exactly the kind of stuff the NSA is very interested in, so it can "patent subsidize" US industries with them [2] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants... [1] https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-cia-and-nsa-research-grants-for-mass-surveillance/ https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_espionage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial...
  - cyberpunk 4y ago
    Sssh! The official line is that only China does this.
- 6510 4y ago
  You make this entire IT thing sound like a bad idea. The mess we've made of it... > U.S. court order If only it worked like that.

jeffbee 4y ago

> at least I have a chance of knowing when my data's being monitored C'mon really. The whole central point of this euro scaremongering is that Google will turn over your data to intelligence agencies when U.S. court orders it to do so. Now imagine that for whatever fanciful and obviously highly unlikely reason the C.I.A. wants your PDFs. You are claiming this will be visible to you, that you will be able to defend yourself against hardware supply chain attacks, attacks on the media you downloaded to install CrapNux on your servers, attacks against your NextCloud auto-updates, attacks against the whole rest of your software supply chain, social engineering attacks against your sysadmins, attacks against your hard disk drive waste stream, and all the rest of it? And you will be able to achieve this on the budget on a Dutch primary school? Look, I think it would be cool if nation-sized bureaucracies had the doctrines and practices that allowed them to be actually safer than the cloud, but as it stands they do not.

ls15 4y ago
> The whole central point of this euro scaremongering is that Google will turn over your data to intelligence agencies when U.S. court orders it to do so. I am sure, Google has ways to abuse data that do not include any courts.
freeflight 4y ago
> The whole central point of this euro scaremongering is that Google will turn over your data to intelligence agencies when U.S. court orders it to do so. Euro scaremongering? [0] [1] Particularly that court mention is weird, considering how the FISA court is very much just a rubberstamp formality. > Now imagine that for whatever fanciful and obviously highly unlikely reason the C.I.A. wants your PDFs. That "fanciful reason" could be that my company developed a breakthrough technology/medication/chemical. Which is exactly the kind of stuff the NSA is very interested in, so it can "patent subsidize" US industries with them [2] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants... [1] https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-cia-and-nsa-research-grants-for-mass-surveillance/ https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_espionage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial...
- cyberpunk 4y ago
  Sssh! The official line is that only China does this.
6510 4y ago
You make this entire IT thing sound like a bad idea. The mess we've made of it... > U.S. court order If only it worked like that.