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The American people ask for conflicting things. Marijuana is a partisan issue, campaign finance reform, gerrymandering, immigration, healthcare, education, clim

The American people ask for conflicting things. Marijuana is a partisan issue, campaign finance reform, gerrymandering, immigration, healthcare, education, climate change, mass incarceration etc are intensely partisan issues. Polarization rightfully makes change slow in a representative democracy. No matter how you as an individual feels about the urgency or necessity of your favorite causes, there are people who feel just as strongly about doing something different or not doing things at all.

autoexec 4y ago
> Marijuana is a partisan issue Every topic will have people on both (or many) sides, but the majority of both democrats and republicans want legalization with only 1 in 10 of all Americans opposing legalizing it for both medical and recreational use. Polarization isn't the problem. There is common ground and wide agreement on various aspects of these issues which are actionable even if it doesn't solve the entirety of the problem. While of course there will be people who want to argue over specifics that's congresses entire job. To represent our disagreeing perspectives on how a problem should be addressed, work out solutions collectively, and put those solutions in place. No party is going to get everything done in the exact manner they want it, but as long as the issues do get addressed (one way, the other, or by some compromise) the system works. If nothing substantive can be done about the issues that the vast majority of the country agree we need to act on because of partisan bickering then the system is broken and broken systems should be replaced with something that is capable of actually working for Americans. "people disagree so nothing can be done!" is not acceptable.
- themacguffinman 4y ago
  It's pretty obvious these people simply aren't voting or aren't voting for appropriate representatives. The US is an optional democracy. It doesn't really matter what you answer in these no-stakes surveys if you can't be bothered to show up for them when electing your representatives. If you sent out a survey asking if people wanted free money, you'll probably get a similarly high approval rate. Your revealed preference when you don't vote accordingly is not "deep down I think Congress should legalize marijuana", it's "I don't care". And let's not get carried away, not legalizing marijuana or establishing your preferred healthcare system does not mean the system is "broken". There are ways for people to express that they think the system is broken, but it usually takes more effort than voting accordingly if you're actually right that there is such a strong consensus.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    The problem I see now is that neither party in our two party system have any interest in candidates who are willing to represent the American people. It's nice that in theory we can vote for anyone we want, but the impracticality of that makes it irrelevant. In practice we vote for who they tell us we can vote for. We are essentially not allowed to vote for appropriate representatives. We usually see the frustration with that reality expressed as some form of "Nobody votes for who they want in office, we all just vote against the person we oppose". The problem is widely acknowledged and there have been a number of suggestions like ranked voting systems which would make it more likely for people to be allowed to vote for the candidates they actually want in office, but as you'd expect those elected by our current system have no interest in implementing them. The system may not be entirely broken (it has allowed for things to get accomplished in the past), but because today it consistently fails to represent our interests or meet our needs even over several election cycles there are clearly bugs to be worked out and I think the problems go beyond which particular asses are filling seats in the capitol building. If we had the ability to simply vote our way out of this mess we'd have done it decades ago. That said, I'll agree that far too many people aren't participating in the process, and the longer this goes on the more I think that will change and in fact it has been improving (in presidential elections voter turn out hasn't been this high since the early 90s and for the 18-24 group it hasn't been this high since the early 70s), but that's also why we're seeing an increase in voter suppression.
    - themacguffinman 4y ago
      Both parties in the two party system have primaries to choose party candidates. If people don't participate in primaries, they shouldn't be surprised when neither party pays attention to who they want. Anyone can run in primaries and they don't even have to win. The whole primary process is designed to signal to the party and the winning candidate what voters are willing to show up for. "Nobody votes for who they want in office" is a natural result of high political polarization and the inherent polarization in any democracy, when that many voters hold competing and conflicting priorities then of course practically no one gets what they want. Spinning this as some kind of evidence that American democracy is broken makes no sense when this is said about practically every democracy, including democracies that use ranked choice. Ranked choice or any other voting system is not going to change this dynamic where the will of millions of disagreeable voters are condensed into a relatively small committee. Alternative voting systems are a trade-off like any other and at best will just move the needle a bit on a handful of issues. Voter suppression is yet another exaggerated bogeyman, it's largely a fight between two equally well-funded factions and the votes it accounts for pales in comparison to voluntary abstinence. Of course the problems go beyond which particular asses sit in Capitol Hill, it goes right up to the asses that sit in the United States, including the people who promote the distracting fable that the system citizens repeatedly voted for (directly or not) is the fault of other people.
choward 4y ago
The issues you call partisan aren't really partisan but they are made partisan by politicians and those with power. A large majority of the country is for making marijuana legal at the federal level. Most people don't like corporations and billionaires funding our elections. Most people are against gerrymandering. Most people are for legal immigration. Most people agree that out healthcare system is broken and way too expensive. Most people want education to be affordable and effective. Most people care about the environment. Most people don't want people to be jailed for petty things or people wrongly convicted. The things people disagree on are the way these issues are framed by politicians and the powerful and the proposed solutions. However it's easy to agree that all of these things are a problem. I'm not saying everyone agrees but a lot more people agree on things then you are lead to believe by those who benefit from keeping the country divided.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > The issues you call partisan aren't really partisan but they are made partisan by politicians Literally what does an issue being “really partisan” mean besides there being a sharp distinction between (in a two party system) the major parties or (more generally) between some group of parties and some other group of parties on the issue? “Not really partisan but made partisan by politicians” is a nonsense description.
  - choward 4y ago
    A more simple way to put it is that the politicians are hyper focused on the minor things we disagree on and complete ignore the things we mostly agree on. This division helps keep people hating each other and not focusing on important issues while also keeping their donors happy since they love the status quo.
    - themacguffinman 4y ago
      Here's another simple way to put it: if politicians only focused on what you call "minor things we disagree on", voters can simply and easily vote them out. But voters don't think those are minor issues, it's just that you don't personally value them. Abortion, for example, is hardly a "minor" issue, for many it's a matter of life and death. You may think marijuana is a "minor" issue, but for others it's a critical crossroads that will determine the future of their community and country. Politicians don't have mind control powers, there is no mechanism to make voters "hyper focus" on issues that voters themselves consider minor. If voters focus on something, it's not minor to them. All you're saying when you dismiss these politicians' focus as "minor things" is that you either don't know or don't respect the decisions of the voters they represent.

autoexec 4y ago

> Marijuana is a partisan issue Every topic will have people on both (or many) sides, but the majority of both democrats and republicans want legalization with only 1 in 10 of all Americans opposing legalizing it for both medical and recreational use. Polarization isn't the problem. There is common ground and wide agreement on various aspects of these issues which are actionable even if it doesn't solve the entirety of the problem. While of course there will be people who want to argue over specifics that's congresses entire job. To represent our disagreeing perspectives on how a problem should be addressed, work out solutions collectively, and put those solutions in place. No party is going to get everything done in the exact manner they want it, but as long as the issues do get addressed (one way, the other, or by some compromise) the system works. If nothing substantive can be done about the issues that the vast majority of the country agree we need to act on because of partisan bickering then the system is broken and broken systems should be replaced with something that is capable of actually working for Americans. "people disagree so nothing can be done!" is not acceptable.

themacguffinman 4y ago
It's pretty obvious these people simply aren't voting or aren't voting for appropriate representatives. The US is an optional democracy. It doesn't really matter what you answer in these no-stakes surveys if you can't be bothered to show up for them when electing your representatives. If you sent out a survey asking if people wanted free money, you'll probably get a similarly high approval rate. Your revealed preference when you don't vote accordingly is not "deep down I think Congress should legalize marijuana", it's "I don't care". And let's not get carried away, not legalizing marijuana or establishing your preferred healthcare system does not mean the system is "broken". There are ways for people to express that they think the system is broken, but it usually takes more effort than voting accordingly if you're actually right that there is such a strong consensus.
- autoexec 4y ago
  The problem I see now is that neither party in our two party system have any interest in candidates who are willing to represent the American people. It's nice that in theory we can vote for anyone we want, but the impracticality of that makes it irrelevant. In practice we vote for who they tell us we can vote for. We are essentially not allowed to vote for appropriate representatives. We usually see the frustration with that reality expressed as some form of "Nobody votes for who they want in office, we all just vote against the person we oppose". The problem is widely acknowledged and there have been a number of suggestions like ranked voting systems which would make it more likely for people to be allowed to vote for the candidates they actually want in office, but as you'd expect those elected by our current system have no interest in implementing them. The system may not be entirely broken (it has allowed for things to get accomplished in the past), but because today it consistently fails to represent our interests or meet our needs even over several election cycles there are clearly bugs to be worked out and I think the problems go beyond which particular asses are filling seats in the capitol building. If we had the ability to simply vote our way out of this mess we'd have done it decades ago. That said, I'll agree that far too many people aren't participating in the process, and the longer this goes on the more I think that will change and in fact it has been improving (in presidential elections voter turn out hasn't been this high since the early 90s and for the 18-24 group it hasn't been this high since the early 70s), but that's also why we're seeing an increase in voter suppression.
  - themacguffinman 4y ago
    Both parties in the two party system have primaries to choose party candidates. If people don't participate in primaries, they shouldn't be surprised when neither party pays attention to who they want. Anyone can run in primaries and they don't even have to win. The whole primary process is designed to signal to the party and the winning candidate what voters are willing to show up for. "Nobody votes for who they want in office" is a natural result of high political polarization and the inherent polarization in any democracy, when that many voters hold competing and conflicting priorities then of course practically no one gets what they want. Spinning this as some kind of evidence that American democracy is broken makes no sense when this is said about practically every democracy, including democracies that use ranked choice. Ranked choice or any other voting system is not going to change this dynamic where the will of millions of disagreeable voters are condensed into a relatively small committee. Alternative voting systems are a trade-off like any other and at best will just move the needle a bit on a handful of issues. Voter suppression is yet another exaggerated bogeyman, it's largely a fight between two equally well-funded factions and the votes it accounts for pales in comparison to voluntary abstinence. Of course the problems go beyond which particular asses sit in Capitol Hill, it goes right up to the asses that sit in the United States, including the people who promote the distracting fable that the system citizens repeatedly voted for (directly or not) is the fault of other people.

choward 4y ago

The issues you call partisan aren't really partisan but they are made partisan by politicians and those with power. A large majority of the country is for making marijuana legal at the federal level. Most people don't like corporations and billionaires funding our elections. Most people are against gerrymandering. Most people are for legal immigration. Most people agree that out healthcare system is broken and way too expensive. Most people want education to be affordable and effective. Most people care about the environment. Most people don't want people to be jailed for petty things or people wrongly convicted. The things people disagree on are the way these issues are framed by politicians and the powerful and the proposed solutions. However it's easy to agree that all of these things are a problem. I'm not saying everyone agrees but a lot more people agree on things then you are lead to believe by those who benefit from keeping the country divided.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> The issues you call partisan aren't really partisan but they are made partisan by politicians Literally what does an issue being “really partisan” mean besides there being a sharp distinction between (in a two party system) the major parties or (more generally) between some group of parties and some other group of parties on the issue? “Not really partisan but made partisan by politicians” is a nonsense description.
- choward 4y ago
  A more simple way to put it is that the politicians are hyper focused on the minor things we disagree on and complete ignore the things we mostly agree on. This division helps keep people hating each other and not focusing on important issues while also keeping their donors happy since they love the status quo.
  - themacguffinman 4y ago
    Here's another simple way to put it: if politicians only focused on what you call "minor things we disagree on", voters can simply and easily vote them out. But voters don't think those are minor issues, it's just that you don't personally value them. Abortion, for example, is hardly a "minor" issue, for many it's a matter of life and death. You may think marijuana is a "minor" issue, but for others it's a critical crossroads that will determine the future of their community and country. Politicians don't have mind control powers, there is no mechanism to make voters "hyper focus" on issues that voters themselves consider minor. If voters focus on something, it's not minor to them. All you're saying when you dismiss these politicians' focus as "minor things" is that you either don't know or don't respect the decisions of the voters they represent.