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Elon pumped and dumped Bitcoin which is a scam in itself. His factories are bleeding money. His autonomous vehicle project is in shambles. All of the other car

Elon pumped and dumped Bitcoin which is a scam in itself. His factories are bleeding money. His autonomous vehicle project is in shambles. All of the other car companies in world are going long on EVs (factories that don't bleed money). And the stock is up 10%. I don't understand it at all.

ratsmack 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
NLPlatypus 4y ago
? Tesla just posted another quarter with billions in profits. The Model 3 is in the top ten selling cars, globally. They’re still selling far more than they can make.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits to Ford and GM so they could continue selling tons of trucks and SUVs. But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    > Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? Yes. You information is very out of date. Its the information that Tesla critics had to fall back to once they became profitable. To anybody with even minimal understanding of the buissness knew that this was just temporary and Tesla was heading toward profitability very fast. But for a few quarters one could right good articles saying 'only profitable because credits'. This has been over for a while, fuel credits have dropped of a huge amount and every quarter they are a fall smaller part of revenue. > My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits First of all, fuel credits are not subsidies. They are punishment for companies that don't comply to regulation. > But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs. Tesla has not received the tax subsidies for many years now. Those Subsidies getting removed would actually benefit Tesla. Fuel credits will not be phased out, in fact they might increase more in the future. And they will continue to exist in Europe as well. People that since 2014 have been arguing that fuel credits are almost gone because every company is gone do EV soon have miscalculated. Fuel credits are gone continue to be a part of the story for EV companies but as Tesla continues to grow its an ever smaller part. Tesla has industry leading operational margin will growing around 50% YoY.
andsoitis 4y ago
> And the stock is up 10%. I don't understand it at all. Stock price movement is driven by expectations about the future, not past results. Now, past results can form a foundation for modeling the future, but a stock price is really about future expectations.
xodjmk 4y ago
When all your assumptions are based on inaccurate twitter gossip and smear campaigns you will have trouble understanding many things.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  This, very sadly. But this alternative-facts mindset about Musk seems to run deep, and be all too common. One of my friends is a career engineer / engineering consultant...who simply refuses to admit that there is anything even a bit special about Elan Musk, or how he took SpaceX from founding the company to their current routine Falcon 9 capabilities and operations. Somehow, in his worldview, everything that happened along that road was government subsidies, other people's work, "trivial to do", or just plain denial.
suggala 4y ago
Financial Engineering might be a good reason. Most of the buy side analysts and fund managers rely on financial metrics and Elon is very good at cooking books. Also, stock price has nothing to do with performance of company as we have seen in GameStop and other companies. My bet is that TSLA stock is moving up by forcing short sellers and call writers to force close their positions by some private market force most probably fueled by Elon tweet farm. In turn creating momentum upwards. It is very contradictory, but I feel TSLA stock will fall if the short sellers stop shorting and call writers stop writing this stock. And stop being bag holders of this stock.
- suggala 4y ago
  Suppose there are 1Billion shares free float in a company. Out of that 500million stocks are locked by Founders and true believers. So only 500million stocks that is liquid. Suppose, I have $10Billion with me. Current price of stock is $1000. Ideally, I could buy 10million shares. Instead, I buy long dated call options to buy 50million shares at a price $1200 probably with $1Billion. And use rest $9Billion in open market to get 9million stock during a decent positive surprise of earnings release. The option writers will scramble to buy stocks in open market for even higher price to cover the options they have written. Example company doing this https://m.holdingschannel.com/all/stocks-held-by-susquehanna-international-group-llp/ https://m.holdingschannel.com/all/stocks-held-by-susquehanna...
panick21_ 4y ago
What a bunch of nonsense. > Elon pumped and dumped Bitcoin which is a scam in itself. The government doesn't agree with you and you can't prove it. > His factories are bleeding money. The factories that were just finished and beginning to scale are losing money, like they would for literally any company. The factories that are fully working are amazingly profitable. > His autonomous vehicle project is in shambles. Its not actually in shambles, its continues on as it has. > All of the other car companies in world are going long on EVs (factories that don't bleed money). In fact Tesla has a far, far better profit margin on EVs and its not even remotely close. > I don't understand it at all. The reason it seems you don't understand is because you just made up a bunch of information that is not factually accurate. Tesla is a pure EV company and despite that, they have industry leading automotive and operational margin while at the same time continuing with insane growth at the same time. Not sure what is hard to understand.
- throwawayalala 4y ago
  >The government doesn't agree with you and you can't prove it. There is no way I trust the US government's ability to regulate financial markets at this moment. Bitcoin is not a regulated security so I am not even sure if there was any law broken to be honest. Still a scam though. Here is an Elon quote for you to chew on: "If the price of bitcoin goes down, I lose money. I might pump, but I don't dump. I definitely do not believe in getting the price high and selling or anything like that" (2021) Well he just dumped. I am not holding my breath for the government to do anything. On the other side of the government: The NTSB is investigating Models Y, X, S and 3 currently. > The factories that were just finished and beginning to scale are losing money, like they would for literally any company. The factories that are fully working are amazingly profitable. Perhaps if he is able to actually release new vehicles in time to deal with onslaught of every auto manufacturer on earth vying for EV dominance. Everything in his pipeline is late. >Its not actually in shambles, its continues on as it has. It continues to kill drivers and cyclists and lose AI execs. His unethical claims on what the system can do also causes drivers to inappropriately use the technology. > The reason it seems you don't understand is because you just made up a bunch of information that is not factually accurate. There is nothing I said that was made up. His factories are bleeding money. He stated that not me. His autonomous vehicle is not autonomous by any definition at all leading to deaths. Almost every car company on earth has entered the EV market and many of them have pioneered factory efficiency for decades (Toyota (production system and quality is legendary)/Ford (invented the assembly line)). I understand that there are many Elon fans who have staked their reputations on boosting this conman and it is hard to accept that they have been conned. The biggest con is that Elon musk is committed to environmental sustainability and he is running a space company that emits tons of carbon into the atmosphere. He wants to run a space travel company that will output orders of magnitude more carbon than the existing wasteful air industry. Why is he in such a hurry to leave Earth? It is because he does not care about anybody but himself.
winternett 4y ago
Rich people can afford to fail upwards. Scams are acceptable if the right palms get greased. A promise is a comfort to a fool. It's never a horrible tragedy if it can't be explained in simple terms on TV news. No matter how hard I warned friends and family, many of them invested and lost on crypto, some even put money up for EV pick up trucks that will never arrive. We had DeLoreans, We had the Titanic, We had Water World (The Movie)... Normal cycle of history repeating itself I guess...
bergenty 4y ago
This post is like conservatives posters from red states coping hard by trying their best to trash talk big cities.

ratsmack 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

NLPlatypus 4y ago

? Tesla just posted another quarter with billions in profits. The Model 3 is in the top ten selling cars, globally. They’re still selling far more than they can make.

jjeaff 4y ago
Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits to Ford and GM so they could continue selling tons of trucks and SUVs. But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  > Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? Yes. You information is very out of date. Its the information that Tesla critics had to fall back to once they became profitable. To anybody with even minimal understanding of the buissness knew that this was just temporary and Tesla was heading toward profitability very fast. But for a few quarters one could right good articles saying 'only profitable because credits'. This has been over for a while, fuel credits have dropped of a huge amount and every quarter they are a fall smaller part of revenue. > My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits First of all, fuel credits are not subsidies. They are punishment for companies that don't comply to regulation. > But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs. Tesla has not received the tax subsidies for many years now. Those Subsidies getting removed would actually benefit Tesla. Fuel credits will not be phased out, in fact they might increase more in the future. And they will continue to exist in Europe as well. People that since 2014 have been arguing that fuel credits are almost gone because every company is gone do EV soon have miscalculated. Fuel credits are gone continue to be a part of the story for EV companies but as Tesla continues to grow its an ever smaller part. Tesla has industry leading operational margin will growing around 50% YoY.

andsoitis 4y ago

> And the stock is up 10%. I don't understand it at all. Stock price movement is driven by expectations about the future, not past results. Now, past results can form a foundation for modeling the future, but a stock price is really about future expectations.

xodjmk 4y ago

When all your assumptions are based on inaccurate twitter gossip and smear campaigns you will have trouble understanding many things.

bell-cot 4y ago
This, very sadly. But this alternative-facts mindset about Musk seems to run deep, and be all too common. One of my friends is a career engineer / engineering consultant...who simply refuses to admit that there is anything even a bit special about Elan Musk, or how he took SpaceX from founding the company to their current routine Falcon 9 capabilities and operations. Somehow, in his worldview, everything that happened along that road was government subsidies, other people's work, "trivial to do", or just plain denial.

suggala 4y ago

Financial Engineering might be a good reason. Most of the buy side analysts and fund managers rely on financial metrics and Elon is very good at cooking books. Also, stock price has nothing to do with performance of company as we have seen in GameStop and other companies. My bet is that TSLA stock is moving up by forcing short sellers and call writers to force close their positions by some private market force most probably fueled by Elon tweet farm. In turn creating momentum upwards. It is very contradictory, but I feel TSLA stock will fall if the short sellers stop shorting and call writers stop writing this stock. And stop being bag holders of this stock.

suggala 4y ago
Suppose there are 1Billion shares free float in a company. Out of that 500million stocks are locked by Founders and true believers. So only 500million stocks that is liquid. Suppose, I have $10Billion with me. Current price of stock is $1000. Ideally, I could buy 10million shares. Instead, I buy long dated call options to buy 50million shares at a price $1200 probably with $1Billion. And use rest $9Billion in open market to get 9million stock during a decent positive surprise of earnings release. The option writers will scramble to buy stocks in open market for even higher price to cover the options they have written. Example company doing this https://m.holdingschannel.com/all/stocks-held-by-susquehanna-international-group-llp/ https://m.holdingschannel.com/all/stocks-held-by-susquehanna...

panick21_ 4y ago

What a bunch of nonsense. > Elon pumped and dumped Bitcoin which is a scam in itself. The government doesn't agree with you and you can't prove it. > His factories are bleeding money. The factories that were just finished and beginning to scale are losing money, like they would for literally any company. The factories that are fully working are amazingly profitable. > His autonomous vehicle project is in shambles. Its not actually in shambles, its continues on as it has. > All of the other car companies in world are going long on EVs (factories that don't bleed money). In fact Tesla has a far, far better profit margin on EVs and its not even remotely close. > I don't understand it at all. The reason it seems you don't understand is because you just made up a bunch of information that is not factually accurate. Tesla is a pure EV company and despite that, they have industry leading automotive and operational margin while at the same time continuing with insane growth at the same time. Not sure what is hard to understand.

throwawayalala 4y ago
>The government doesn't agree with you and you can't prove it. There is no way I trust the US government's ability to regulate financial markets at this moment. Bitcoin is not a regulated security so I am not even sure if there was any law broken to be honest. Still a scam though. Here is an Elon quote for you to chew on: "If the price of bitcoin goes down, I lose money. I might pump, but I don't dump. I definitely do not believe in getting the price high and selling or anything like that" (2021) Well he just dumped. I am not holding my breath for the government to do anything. On the other side of the government: The NTSB is investigating Models Y, X, S and 3 currently. > The factories that were just finished and beginning to scale are losing money, like they would for literally any company. The factories that are fully working are amazingly profitable. Perhaps if he is able to actually release new vehicles in time to deal with onslaught of every auto manufacturer on earth vying for EV dominance. Everything in his pipeline is late. >Its not actually in shambles, its continues on as it has. It continues to kill drivers and cyclists and lose AI execs. His unethical claims on what the system can do also causes drivers to inappropriately use the technology. > The reason it seems you don't understand is because you just made up a bunch of information that is not factually accurate. There is nothing I said that was made up. His factories are bleeding money. He stated that not me. His autonomous vehicle is not autonomous by any definition at all leading to deaths. Almost every car company on earth has entered the EV market and many of them have pioneered factory efficiency for decades (Toyota (production system and quality is legendary)/Ford (invented the assembly line)). I understand that there are many Elon fans who have staked their reputations on boosting this conman and it is hard to accept that they have been conned. The biggest con is that Elon musk is committed to environmental sustainability and he is running a space company that emits tons of carbon into the atmosphere. He wants to run a space travel company that will output orders of magnitude more carbon than the existing wasteful air industry. Why is he in such a hurry to leave Earth? It is because he does not care about anybody but himself.

winternett 4y ago

Rich people can afford to fail upwards. Scams are acceptable if the right palms get greased. A promise is a comfort to a fool. It's never a horrible tragedy if it can't be explained in simple terms on TV news. No matter how hard I warned friends and family, many of them invested and lost on crypto, some even put money up for EV pick up trucks that will never arrive. We had DeLoreans, We had the Titanic, We had Water World (The Movie)... Normal cycle of history repeating itself I guess...

bergenty 4y ago

This post is like conservatives posters from red states coping hard by trying their best to trash talk big cities.