4 ms·

Am I out of touch? I think about 30-40k does not sound unreasonable for something like this. You have a redesign, with UX people improving your shopping and car

Am I out of touch? I think about 30-40k does not sound unreasonable for something like this. You have a redesign, with UX people improving your shopping and cart page + implementation + updating your maze of weird bootstrap theme to the new redesign.

notahacker 4y ago
tbf the agency's original "how long is a piece of string" response to website is probably fair here Some companies really do want to a/b test their shopping cart to death, and have 40 iterations of their logo with roundtable meetings in between, and that stuff can genuinely take many man months and in the case of the a/b testing might even be time and money well spent. I'm sure some of the agency's regular clients spend $400k on getting e-commerce sites which are only a bit more complex overhauled and think they'll see value from it But 46k is definitely unreasonable for something you've estimated at 7k, and 38 billable hours to refactor a Bootstrap template for a minimalist website with about 10 pages doesn't sound like efficient work.
- javier2 4y ago
  Yeah, its not great, but I dont think its unreasonable. Id expect it more in 25-30k range, 7k sounds like fairy tale. Lets say you have two designers working 40 hours on this over 3 months, thats quickly 20k just there, before any implementation. Dont joke about untangling Bootstrap from your css architecture, I’ve seen that take 6 months to get out from.
  - notahacker 4y ago
    $7k doesn't sound like a fairytale, it sounds like a pretty standard ballpark for a logo and custom hero graphic, a discussion about order of homepage sections, and a cart flow with a radio button to select a product from. Easy to spend more time revising it, but that's a situation where the client should feel they're the one spending that budget. The fairytale is doing it with a $46 template and a $7 logo, but even those can have happy endings when the sought-after design is uncomplicated... And whilst I'm sure there are complex apps and huge sites which are horrendously sensitive to untangling Bootstrap especially where pixel perfect preservation is required, we're talking about implementing three brand new pages of standard layouts plus a handful more black-on-white text pages with existing standard layouts and the new header, font and button carried over. Implementing that in 38 hours is not fast work.
partiallypro 4y ago
I agree, I don't see it as outrageous at all. Agencies often charge too little then get scope creeped into overrunning their own labor, so smart agencies charge good money and write tight language in contracts to avoid it. It's very easy for a project that seems simple to solve to become a massive undertaking.
sergiomattei 4y ago
It sounds reasonable for a good redesign, but this is just terrible. Generic all the way.
- prawn 4y ago
  I would’ve thought that the product photo was a strength of the offering (proof of legitimacy given designed hardware is expensive and shows commitment). But the redesign hides it away and uses illustrations like every startup’s MVP site! Seems insane.
discardable_dan 4y ago
A single person could make something that looks comparable, if not better, with SquareSpace in like two weeks. The logo is the only nice thing IMO.

notahacker 4y ago

tbf the agency's original "how long is a piece of string" response to website is probably fair here Some companies really do want to a/b test their shopping cart to death, and have 40 iterations of their logo with roundtable meetings in between, and that stuff can genuinely take many man months and in the case of the a/b testing might even be time and money well spent. I'm sure some of the agency's regular clients spend $400k on getting e-commerce sites which are only a bit more complex overhauled and think they'll see value from it But 46k is definitely unreasonable for something you've estimated at 7k, and 38 billable hours to refactor a Bootstrap template for a minimalist website with about 10 pages doesn't sound like efficient work.

javier2 4y ago
Yeah, its not great, but I dont think its unreasonable. Id expect it more in 25-30k range, 7k sounds like fairy tale. Lets say you have two designers working 40 hours on this over 3 months, thats quickly 20k just there, before any implementation. Dont joke about untangling Bootstrap from your css architecture, I’ve seen that take 6 months to get out from.
- notahacker 4y ago
  $7k doesn't sound like a fairytale, it sounds like a pretty standard ballpark for a logo and custom hero graphic, a discussion about order of homepage sections, and a cart flow with a radio button to select a product from. Easy to spend more time revising it, but that's a situation where the client should feel they're the one spending that budget. The fairytale is doing it with a $46 template and a $7 logo, but even those can have happy endings when the sought-after design is uncomplicated... And whilst I'm sure there are complex apps and huge sites which are horrendously sensitive to untangling Bootstrap especially where pixel perfect preservation is required, we're talking about implementing three brand new pages of standard layouts plus a handful more black-on-white text pages with existing standard layouts and the new header, font and button carried over. Implementing that in 38 hours is not fast work.

partiallypro 4y ago

I agree, I don't see it as outrageous at all. Agencies often charge too little then get scope creeped into overrunning their own labor, so smart agencies charge good money and write tight language in contracts to avoid it. It's very easy for a project that seems simple to solve to become a massive undertaking.

sergiomattei 4y ago

It sounds reasonable for a good redesign, but this is just terrible. Generic all the way.

prawn 4y ago
I would’ve thought that the product photo was a strength of the offering (proof of legitimacy given designed hardware is expensive and shows commitment). But the redesign hides it away and uses illustrations like every startup’s MVP site! Seems insane.

discardable_dan 4y ago

A single person could make something that looks comparable, if not better, with SquareSpace in like two weeks. The logo is the only nice thing IMO.