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You have to wonder what proportion of GDP is money sloshing around like this but not providing any real value. The consultants got their paychecks and spent the

You have to wonder what proportion of GDP is money sloshing around like this but not providing any real value. The consultants got their paychecks and spent their money in the real economy, but there seems to be a great deal of waste in the B2B space.

raverbashing 4y ago
I ask myself the same question
thechao 4y ago
I have this theory that B2B is actually most of the economy; and, that, somehow, real people are only ancillary to that. Like a patina if human customers over a huge mound of B2B ... motion.
- dreig 4y ago
  But how can that be? At the end of the day some consumer must foot the bill and cover all the additional costs of B2B services. Ultimately businesses are only comfortable paying others businesses because they found a way to make money (i.e. sell to customers, somewhere down the line)
  - tclancy 4y ago
    Valuations stopped working on reality some time ago.
  - softveda 4y ago
    I shitload of the economy is directly or indirectly government funded. In Australia defence, health/hospital/disability/aged/mental health care (even if private), education all levels (even private), public infrastructure and construction, and government owned enterprises (Australia Post/NBN etc.). They will get their funding through budget.
  - airstrike 4y ago
    Something something quantitative easing and productivity gains from globalization and automation outpacing the half-life of these unprofitable wild goose chases
  - lmm 4y ago
    Some executive had the budget for it, it wasn't paid for out of his pocket. They can't get outcompeted by a more efficient competitor because every big business is like this. In some fields smaller competitors can eat their lunch, but the dinosaurs persist because they make so much surplus by being big. Hertz charges what, 3x what your local no-name car rental place charges for the same product? But a business traveller doesn't care because they're expensing it and just want whoever's got a spot at the airport.
  - thechao 4y ago
    I own a computer; my company buys a computer for me to do work. If the economy consists of mothing but people, companies, and computers, it'll be twice as big as you'd think it'd be. Then, you need people to manage the computers — but now you need twice the number of people to do that than you think you would. You need to ship computers, recycle computers, ... The economy isn't zero-sum: I think the nonpeople economy is only limited by our ability to run companies, and there's no limit ti the wealth of a company? Maybe? I dunno...
- kwere 4y ago
  governement in most economies is even more Gargantuous. just for US, 37% on average (since 1970s) of gdp is governement spending ("tax" revenue+debt). here an historical gov on gdp table: []https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDP#Historical_Development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_governmen...
greenpeas 4y ago
A lot of resources are being "wasted" by everyone all the time. Think about the gym memberships and exercise equipment that people buy and never use. Or online courses and books that don't get consumed. Or clothes and shoes that are never worn, or food that gets thrown out. There's "waste" everywhere, but only big businesses can afford to lose this much at once, so that catches our attention. Fortunately, there's usually a selection process that makes sure those businesses don't live too long. edit: how many discontinued google products are there? They're got to be worth tens of billions in developer costs and perhaps more in opportunity costs.
gumby 4y ago
Lovely: a form of Bastiat’s Broken Windows fallacy. I think you’re on to a great insight!
lxe 4y ago
I'd wager only 5-10% of all money is actually used in an exchange for real value. Everything else is just rotating through the bureaucrats.
louwrentius 4y ago
You should read Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber if you haven't already.
kumarvvr 4y ago
The jobless percentage of population would shoot up by double digit basis points if not for bullshit jobs that just move money around.
tazjin 4y ago
Read this related Twitter thread recently: https://twitter.com/crim_thought/status/1549554660184231936 https://twitter.com/crim_thought/status/1549554660184231936 It's about comparing global economies in terms of actual, physical production output instead of GDP numbers that include nonsense like the big "service" companies. Results are unsurprising.

raverbashing 4y ago

I ask myself the same question

thechao 4y ago

I have this theory that B2B is actually most of the economy; and, that, somehow, real people are only ancillary to that. Like a patina if human customers over a huge mound of B2B ... motion.

dreig 4y ago
But how can that be? At the end of the day some consumer must foot the bill and cover all the additional costs of B2B services. Ultimately businesses are only comfortable paying others businesses because they found a way to make money (i.e. sell to customers, somewhere down the line)
- tclancy 4y ago
  Valuations stopped working on reality some time ago.
- softveda 4y ago
  I shitload of the economy is directly or indirectly government funded. In Australia defence, health/hospital/disability/aged/mental health care (even if private), education all levels (even private), public infrastructure and construction, and government owned enterprises (Australia Post/NBN etc.). They will get their funding through budget.
- airstrike 4y ago
  Something something quantitative easing and productivity gains from globalization and automation outpacing the half-life of these unprofitable wild goose chases
- lmm 4y ago
  Some executive had the budget for it, it wasn't paid for out of his pocket. They can't get outcompeted by a more efficient competitor because every big business is like this. In some fields smaller competitors can eat their lunch, but the dinosaurs persist because they make so much surplus by being big. Hertz charges what, 3x what your local no-name car rental place charges for the same product? But a business traveller doesn't care because they're expensing it and just want whoever's got a spot at the airport.
- thechao 4y ago
  I own a computer; my company buys a computer for me to do work. If the economy consists of mothing but people, companies, and computers, it'll be twice as big as you'd think it'd be. Then, you need people to manage the computers — but now you need twice the number of people to do that than you think you would. You need to ship computers, recycle computers, ... The economy isn't zero-sum: I think the nonpeople economy is only limited by our ability to run companies, and there's no limit ti the wealth of a company? Maybe? I dunno...
kwere 4y ago
governement in most economies is even more Gargantuous. just for US, 37% on average (since 1970s) of gdp is governement spending ("tax" revenue+debt). here an historical gov on gdp table: []https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDP#Historical_Development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_governmen...

greenpeas 4y ago

A lot of resources are being "wasted" by everyone all the time. Think about the gym memberships and exercise equipment that people buy and never use. Or online courses and books that don't get consumed. Or clothes and shoes that are never worn, or food that gets thrown out. There's "waste" everywhere, but only big businesses can afford to lose this much at once, so that catches our attention. Fortunately, there's usually a selection process that makes sure those businesses don't live too long. edit: how many discontinued google products are there? They're got to be worth tens of billions in developer costs and perhaps more in opportunity costs.

gumby 4y ago

Lovely: a form of Bastiat’s Broken Windows fallacy. I think you’re on to a great insight!

lxe 4y ago

I'd wager only 5-10% of all money is actually used in an exchange for real value. Everything else is just rotating through the bureaucrats.

louwrentius 4y ago

You should read Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber if you haven't already.

kumarvvr 4y ago

The jobless percentage of population would shoot up by double digit basis points if not for bullshit jobs that just move money around.

tazjin 4y ago

Read this related Twitter thread recently: https://twitter.com/crim_thought/status/1549554660184231936 https://twitter.com/crim_thought/status/1549554660184231936 It's about comparing global economies in terms of actual, physical production output instead of GDP numbers that include nonsense like the big "service" companies. Results are unsurprising.