6 ms·

Get over it: Microsoft is a Linux and open source company these days

10 points by low_tech_punk 4y ago

simonblack 4y ago
I've got a cheap bridge for sale. Anybody want to buy it?
asojfdowgh 4y ago
Get over it: The local preschool is a Linux and open source company these days: their website is hosted on a linux box. Their open source code editor is actually closed source, I'd tell you to check yourself, but you legally are not allowed to reverse engineer it either. And it pushed the open opensource alternative, Atom, out of the running. dotNET? Obviously in response to the progress of mono, which now supports .NET 4.7 (current .NET is 6), C# 7 (current is C# 10) I don't know if lagging 2-3 versions behind is normal for mono, however, if they are currently "Sponsored by Microsoft", shouldn't the situation get better? - - - the article lists the copilot issue, and the .net bull, that's 2 of the 3 open-source things microsoft directly does. paying lip service to a kernel, does not make a company an open source company. - - - Azure runs linux on their boxes because the Windows-only Azure in every other universe, closed its doors due to nearly no customers
hammyhavoc 4y ago
They've become more valuable than ever because they've become a services company that doesn't need to sell software licenses to stay afloat.
thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> All things considered, it's well past time to stop being so harsh on Redmond. Stop judging Microsoft on what it did a decade ago and judge it by what it's doing today. You mean like closed sourcing previously open source VS Code extensions? They recently announced that they are closed sourcing the C# VS Code extension: "Once the “LSP Tools Host” is complete, this will become the default experience for the C# for VS Code extension. Existing users will be able to choose between the open-source OmniSharp powered system that exists today, or the new “'LSP Tools Host” which will provide access to additional experiences. The “LSP Tools Host” will not be open-sourced, but we plan to communicate with the community along the way to help guide our future plans."[1] The same thing was done with PyLance which was "extended" from PyRight.[2] Why would they do this? Because VS Code can't get good enough to compete with Visual Studio. If it did, they would lose revenue by not selling enough copies of Visual Studio. It's the same Microsoft, they've just had to adapt since they lost a lot of the power they had in the past. [1] https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 [2] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fast-feature-rich-language-support-for-python-in-visual-studio-code/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fas...
- Kukumber 4y ago
  As well as changing the license of the .net debugger so it can only be used with visual studio and closed source As well as removing hotreload from .net and making it an exclusive feature to visual studio and closed source https://exceptionnotfound.net/the-catch-block-80-the-dotnet-drama-strikes-back/ https://exceptionnotfound.net/the-catch-block-80-the-dotnet-...
undoware 4y ago
IMO at MSFT there's a big cultural disconnect between the old-guard, who are of course senior management, and FOSS-forward teams. The needs of the latter are not always understood by the former. E.g. the recent HMR debacle with C#. Part of the problem is that it's really hard to explain cultural significance to people outside a given culture, and FOSS is a strong culture, and so is The Microsoft Way, and the two are uneasy roommates right now. I'd say -- politely -- that they are learning by doing, but there are still things to learn/do, and they'd probably say the same. Anecdotal example: Ironically, MSFT's first move after SolarWinds was to ban Linux from its internal network, CorpNet, for over a year, while they figured out how to do InTune for Linux. Most folks didn't seem to notice, but as someone who lives and breathes Linux, it was like having my wings clipped. (Why Linux? Why SolarWinds? I heard everything from "somebody's raspberry pi was ingress" to "zero trust fundamentalism", but I still don't know. We weren't told.) It was awkward that there was not institutional capacity for securing these endpoints sooner.
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
What people don't get is that eventually these big companies with their large resources will start to dictate the direction of the open source community since they have the resources to contribute lots of source code. Generally speaking this would be good but when one large company does it they do it in self interest. We have seen it with Google and the internet. Right now, Google dictates a large part of where the internet as a whole is headed. If Google wants it then it gets done and a large percent of the time others just follow. I think this is where we are headed with Microsoft and Linux. In time Linux will be Microsoft and Microsoft will be Linux. The problem is that companies don't do things out of the goodness of their heart. It's all done in self interest. In time Microsoft will dictate where Linux is headed and that will be a loss for technical innovation but it will be a boom to Microsoft.
- modshatereality 4y ago
  >I think this is where we are headed with Microsoft and Linux. It's been doing this already for some time now. The list of kernel devs on their directly taxable payroll grows each year, as more and more weird features are implemented that nobody outside of giant industry (google, facebook, oracle, etc) ever wanted but are now stuck with running in ring 0 on their PC's/phones. The time to fork was years ago, though there is always the opportunity of a rewrite/revolution; we have to move beyond GPLv2 to break free from the artificial encrypted (tivoized) cages built by these industrialist hacks.
News-Dog 4y ago
CBL-Mariner (Common Base Linux) free/open-source Linux by Microsoft : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBL-Mariner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBL-Mariner CBL-Mariner : https://github.com/microsoft/CBL-Mariner https://github.com/microsoft/CBL-Mariner

10 points by low_tech_punk 4y ago

I've got a cheap bridge for sale. Anybody want to buy it?

Get over it: The local preschool is a Linux and open source company these days: their website is hosted on a linux box. Their open source code editor is actually closed source, I'd tell you to check yourself, but you legally are not allowed to reverse engineer it either. And it pushed the open opensource alternative, Atom, out of the running. dotNET? Obviously in response to the progress of mono, which now supports .NET 4.7 (current .NET is 6), C# 7 (current is C# 10) I don't know if lagging 2-3 versions behind is normal for mono, however, if they are currently "Sponsored by Microsoft", shouldn't the situation get better? - - - the article lists the copilot issue, and the .net bull, that's 2 of the 3 open-source things microsoft directly does. paying lip service to a kernel, does not make a company an open source company. - - - Azure runs linux on their boxes because the Windows-only Azure in every other universe, closed its doors due to nearly no customers

hammyhavoc 4y ago

They've become more valuable than ever because they've become a services company that doesn't need to sell software licenses to stay afloat.

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago

>> All things considered, it's well past time to stop being so harsh on Redmond. Stop judging Microsoft on what it did a decade ago and judge it by what it's doing today. You mean like closed sourcing previously open source VS Code extensions? They recently announced that they are closed sourcing the C# VS Code extension: "Once the “LSP Tools Host” is complete, this will become the default experience for the C# for VS Code extension. Existing users will be able to choose between the open-source OmniSharp powered system that exists today, or the new “'LSP Tools Host” which will provide access to additional experiences. The “LSP Tools Host” will not be open-sourced, but we plan to communicate with the community along the way to help guide our future plans."[1] The same thing was done with PyLance which was "extended" from PyRight.[2] Why would they do this? Because VS Code can't get good enough to compete with Visual Studio. If it did, they would lose revenue by not selling enough copies of Visual Studio. It's the same Microsoft, they've just had to adapt since they lost a lot of the power they had in the past. [1] https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 [2] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fast-feature-rich-language-support-for-python-in-visual-studio-code/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fas...

Kukumber 4y ago
As well as changing the license of the .net debugger so it can only be used with visual studio and closed source As well as removing hotreload from .net and making it an exclusive feature to visual studio and closed source https://exceptionnotfound.net/the-catch-block-80-the-dotnet-drama-strikes-back/ https://exceptionnotfound.net/the-catch-block-80-the-dotnet-...

undoware 4y ago

IMO at MSFT there's a big cultural disconnect between the old-guard, who are of course senior management, and FOSS-forward teams. The needs of the latter are not always understood by the former. E.g. the recent HMR debacle with C#. Part of the problem is that it's really hard to explain cultural significance to people outside a given culture, and FOSS is a strong culture, and so is The Microsoft Way, and the two are uneasy roommates right now. I'd say -- politely -- that they are learning by doing, but there are still things to learn/do, and they'd probably say the same. Anecdotal example: Ironically, MSFT's first move after SolarWinds was to ban Linux from its internal network, CorpNet, for over a year, while they figured out how to do InTune for Linux. Most folks didn't seem to notice, but as someone who lives and breathes Linux, it was like having my wings clipped. (Why Linux? Why SolarWinds? I heard everything from "somebody's raspberry pi was ingress" to "zero trust fundamentalism", but I still don't know. We weren't told.) It was awkward that there was not institutional capacity for securing these endpoints sooner.

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

What people don't get is that eventually these big companies with their large resources will start to dictate the direction of the open source community since they have the resources to contribute lots of source code. Generally speaking this would be good but when one large company does it they do it in self interest. We have seen it with Google and the internet. Right now, Google dictates a large part of where the internet as a whole is headed. If Google wants it then it gets done and a large percent of the time others just follow. I think this is where we are headed with Microsoft and Linux. In time Linux will be Microsoft and Microsoft will be Linux. The problem is that companies don't do things out of the goodness of their heart. It's all done in self interest. In time Microsoft will dictate where Linux is headed and that will be a loss for technical innovation but it will be a boom to Microsoft.

modshatereality 4y ago
>I think this is where we are headed with Microsoft and Linux. It's been doing this already for some time now. The list of kernel devs on their directly taxable payroll grows each year, as more and more weird features are implemented that nobody outside of giant industry (google, facebook, oracle, etc) ever wanted but are now stuck with running in ring 0 on their PC's/phones. The time to fork was years ago, though there is always the opportunity of a rewrite/revolution; we have to move beyond GPLv2 to break free from the artificial encrypted (tivoized) cages built by these industrialist hacks.

News-Dog 4y ago

CBL-Mariner (Common Base Linux) free/open-source Linux by Microsoft : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBL-Mariner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBL-Mariner CBL-Mariner : https://github.com/microsoft/CBL-Mariner https://github.com/microsoft/CBL-Mariner