5 ms·

I don't understand. What control do I have over a tired/drunk/high truck driver running a red light into an intersection I'm passing in? I can be actually ass

I don't understand. What control do I have over a tired/drunk/high truck driver running a red light into an intersection I'm passing in? I can be actually assured that no drunk driver will smash into my seat in a subway (the chance might not be zero but it's astronomically low). You may say it's not "control" because I didn't personally force all those drunk drivers out of railroads, but then again, I can't force them out of public roads either.

TylerE 4y ago
You can assure that you don’t drive drunk. You can’t assure your bus driver didn’t pop a few pills before they came on shift.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  There’s risk mitigation there in the form of training and testing.
- toyg 4y ago
  You also can't be sure a random guy is not going to come from a side street on a red light at 90mph and T-bone you because he was answering a whatsapp and didn't notice the lights. I ride a motorbike. As part of training I was repeatedly told to wear protection not because of my riding skills, but because of everyone else's lack of skills.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    You can't assure it, but again, you can control your own actions to help mitigate the danger of others being reckless. For example by driving defensively, scanning to the left and right when passing through an intersection, etc.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    Part of riding a motorbike (cycle here) is also driving defensively is it not? I don't assume people are going to stop at a given intersection, I take a look at their current speed and project it forward before determining if it's safe for me to go. If someone is going at a high rate of speed towards a stop sign or red light, I don't pull out just because I have the "right of way" I assume they are going to do something stupid. Another example: On the highway I get myself into a position where I have plenty of stopping distance for the car in front of me, but also behind me in case I need to stop rapidly myself.
    - foepys 4y ago
      You will never be able to look into every intersection, even very open ones. You will never be able to look out for cars traveling 50kph/30mph unless you literally stop before entering every intersection. You also don't have any control over how far behind other cars are. The only thing you can do is to drive faster or to let them by by stopping or changing lanes. The latter is highly dangerous in fast flowing traffic on single lane roads while the first will almost never help as the other car actively wants to go faster. Being in absolute control is you can drive as defensively as you want, in the end a distracted idiot can take you out and the only thing you can do is minimize the risk.
    - xyzzyz 4y ago
      > I don't assume people are going to stop at a given intersection, I take a look at their current speed and project it forward before determining if it's safe for me to go. While I sympathize with your overall sentiment (and indeed, as a fellow motorcyclists, I know a lot about defensive driving/riding), I have never seen people consistently drive the way you describe, ever. For many intersections in the cities (probably most), you simply cannot see if someone is actually going from a side road until you're so deep in the intersection that you have no chance of stopping before it if you notice someone. Imagine you're driving here: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703087,-122.3952816,3a,75y,271.49h,84.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMWG6CWlTVIoAgH8us8uGog!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703087,-122.3952816,3a,75y,... There's a side road on in front of you. Imagine there is a car going same speed as you, on a crash trajectory (i.e. it is exactly as far from the intersection as you are). Where's the first moment you see it? Most likely, around here: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703156,-122.3959313,3a,75y,273.03h,62.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFQrpeAZVvzq3kVUf9ROO_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703156,-122.3959313,3a,75y,... where you're around 20 feet from the intersection of your routes. If you begin braking immediately as you notice the other car, you need to be going slower 15 mph if you want to avoid a crash. If you add any amount of time to actually judge the speed of the other car and its intention of stopping, you need to be going less than 10 mph. Needless to say, nobody actually does that, people don't slow down to 10 mph in locations like above.
      - 4y ago
- hgomersall 4y ago
  The point is, every driver you interact with might be drunk or distracted. In a collision with a drunk in a car, I'd rather be in a bus.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Sure, but you would probably rather be driving a car if your bus driver was suicidal that morning.
    - hgomersall 4y ago
      How many suicidal bus drivers have we had? I mean ever.
      - TylerE 4y ago
        https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dz5kk/bus-driver-china-killed-himself-20-others-home-demolished https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dz5kk/bus-driver-china-kill... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37328824 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37328824 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-04-08-me-52192-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-04-08-me-52192-... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/10/12/ttc-driver-charges.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/10/12/ttc-d... (Not a suicide, but it's on topic)
      - egypturnash 4y ago
        I just searched for “bus driver suicide” and it was a pretty even split between stories about drivers saving people who were trying to kill themselves, and drivers killing themselves. The latter was very much largely happening in solitary ways, except for one dude in China who drove his bus into a lake.
    - jeromegv 4y ago
      Even if that happened, how many people can seriously be injured in a bus accident in a city? Not talking of bus going through mountains and losing breaks
- 1270018080 4y ago
  It was critical for your train of thought to skip the part where other drivers kill you.
- yongjik 4y ago
  You assure your bus driver doesn't have a habit of popping pills by making them go through rigorous certification, give them decent wages, and punishing them harshly when they do pop pills. You may object it's not perfect, but nothing is, and it does work. In fact, it works exactly the same way you can assure that your brake pad won't suddenly give way in front of a bus coming from your left.
ModernMech 4y ago
For one, you can choose the routes you take. Accidents aren't evenly distributed across every mile of road. Some roads are are just statistically safer than others. Accidents also aren't evenly distributed across all times of day and weather conditions. By choosing not to drive at those times and in those conditions, you can lower your risk profile. Moreover, the route you drive most is your commute to work, so you can choose where you live to minimize travel time and intersections. There's one intersection on my way to work, so I guess theoretically what you describe could happen. But the accident statistics for that particular intersection show that practically no accidents have occurred there. Therefore most of the time I spend driving is going to be quite safe compared to the aggregate stats, and that's by choice. Delivery driver routes are usually optimized for right turns for this reason. My dad was a UPS driver for 30 years and went without an accident the entire time, not even one that wasn't his fault. You'd think statistically he would have gotten into one over the million miles or so he drove on and off the job, but I think that just goes to show that defensive driving and route planning actually works. No form of travel is absolutely safe. The best you can do is control what you can and hope for the best.
cdkmoose 4y ago
Bu can you be assured that a drunk/tired/* train engineer doesn't run a signal and crash into another train?

TylerE 4y ago

You can assure that you don’t drive drunk. You can’t assure your bus driver didn’t pop a few pills before they came on shift.

Spooky23 4y ago
There’s risk mitigation there in the form of training and testing.
toyg 4y ago
You also can't be sure a random guy is not going to come from a side street on a red light at 90mph and T-bone you because he was answering a whatsapp and didn't notice the lights. I ride a motorbike. As part of training I was repeatedly told to wear protection not because of my riding skills, but because of everyone else's lack of skills.
- googlryas 4y ago
  You can't assure it, but again, you can control your own actions to help mitigate the danger of others being reckless. For example by driving defensively, scanning to the left and right when passing through an intersection, etc.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Part of riding a motorbike (cycle here) is also driving defensively is it not? I don't assume people are going to stop at a given intersection, I take a look at their current speed and project it forward before determining if it's safe for me to go. If someone is going at a high rate of speed towards a stop sign or red light, I don't pull out just because I have the "right of way" I assume they are going to do something stupid. Another example: On the highway I get myself into a position where I have plenty of stopping distance for the car in front of me, but also behind me in case I need to stop rapidly myself.
  - foepys 4y ago
    You will never be able to look into every intersection, even very open ones. You will never be able to look out for cars traveling 50kph/30mph unless you literally stop before entering every intersection. You also don't have any control over how far behind other cars are. The only thing you can do is to drive faster or to let them by by stopping or changing lanes. The latter is highly dangerous in fast flowing traffic on single lane roads while the first will almost never help as the other car actively wants to go faster. Being in absolute control is you can drive as defensively as you want, in the end a distracted idiot can take you out and the only thing you can do is minimize the risk.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    > I don't assume people are going to stop at a given intersection, I take a look at their current speed and project it forward before determining if it's safe for me to go. While I sympathize with your overall sentiment (and indeed, as a fellow motorcyclists, I know a lot about defensive driving/riding), I have never seen people consistently drive the way you describe, ever. For many intersections in the cities (probably most), you simply cannot see if someone is actually going from a side road until you're so deep in the intersection that you have no chance of stopping before it if you notice someone. Imagine you're driving here: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703087,-122.3952816,3a,75y,271.49h,84.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMWG6CWlTVIoAgH8us8uGog!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703087,-122.3952816,3a,75y,... There's a side road on in front of you. Imagine there is a car going same speed as you, on a crash trajectory (i.e. it is exactly as far from the intersection as you are). Where's the first moment you see it? Most likely, around here: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703156,-122.3959313,3a,75y,273.03h,62.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFQrpeAZVvzq3kVUf9ROO_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5703156,-122.3959313,3a,75y,... where you're around 20 feet from the intersection of your routes. If you begin braking immediately as you notice the other car, you need to be going slower 15 mph if you want to avoid a crash. If you add any amount of time to actually judge the speed of the other car and its intention of stopping, you need to be going less than 10 mph. Needless to say, nobody actually does that, people don't slow down to 10 mph in locations like above.
    - 4y ago
hgomersall 4y ago
The point is, every driver you interact with might be drunk or distracted. In a collision with a drunk in a car, I'd rather be in a bus.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Sure, but you would probably rather be driving a car if your bus driver was suicidal that morning.
  - hgomersall 4y ago
    How many suicidal bus drivers have we had? I mean ever.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dz5kk/bus-driver-china-killed-himself-20-others-home-demolished https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dz5kk/bus-driver-china-kill... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37328824 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37328824 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-04-08-me-52192-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-04-08-me-52192-... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/10/12/ttc-driver-charges.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/10/12/ttc-d... (Not a suicide, but it's on topic)
    - egypturnash 4y ago
      I just searched for “bus driver suicide” and it was a pretty even split between stories about drivers saving people who were trying to kill themselves, and drivers killing themselves. The latter was very much largely happening in solitary ways, except for one dude in China who drove his bus into a lake.
  - jeromegv 4y ago
    Even if that happened, how many people can seriously be injured in a bus accident in a city? Not talking of bus going through mountains and losing breaks
1270018080 4y ago
It was critical for your train of thought to skip the part where other drivers kill you.
yongjik 4y ago
You assure your bus driver doesn't have a habit of popping pills by making them go through rigorous certification, give them decent wages, and punishing them harshly when they do pop pills. You may object it's not perfect, but nothing is, and it does work. In fact, it works exactly the same way you can assure that your brake pad won't suddenly give way in front of a bus coming from your left.

ModernMech 4y ago

For one, you can choose the routes you take. Accidents aren't evenly distributed across every mile of road. Some roads are are just statistically safer than others. Accidents also aren't evenly distributed across all times of day and weather conditions. By choosing not to drive at those times and in those conditions, you can lower your risk profile. Moreover, the route you drive most is your commute to work, so you can choose where you live to minimize travel time and intersections. There's one intersection on my way to work, so I guess theoretically what you describe could happen. But the accident statistics for that particular intersection show that practically no accidents have occurred there. Therefore most of the time I spend driving is going to be quite safe compared to the aggregate stats, and that's by choice. Delivery driver routes are usually optimized for right turns for this reason. My dad was a UPS driver for 30 years and went without an accident the entire time, not even one that wasn't his fault. You'd think statistically he would have gotten into one over the million miles or so he drove on and off the job, but I think that just goes to show that defensive driving and route planning actually works. No form of travel is absolutely safe. The best you can do is control what you can and hope for the best.

cdkmoose 4y ago

Bu can you be assured that a drunk/tired/* train engineer doesn't run a signal and crash into another train?