6 ms·

Tesla cashes out $936M in Bitcoin

46 points by algoatecorn 4y ago

spywaregorilla 4y ago
I'm surprised the price didn't fall more
hourago 4y ago
Makes no sense that a car manufacturer is speculating on exotic financial investments. You buy shares of an automaker expecting cars and related stuff. It's the same that Tesla betting its capital in the Super Bowl.
- jimmydorry 4y ago
  Most of the other car manufacturers make a majority of their money on financing services rather than making and selling cars. How is Tesla parking money in Bitcoin much different when most of them are essentially atttempting to make money outside their specialty?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > How is Tesla parking money in Bitcoin much different when most of them are essentially atttempting to make money outside their specialty? Car manufacturing is cash intensive. When car companies finance car purchases, they’re rarely doing so off balance sheet. They aren’t parking money; when they felt the need to they historically returned it to shareholders. Tesla financed its Bitcoin wager off balance sheet. It lost cash on the adventure, cash which could have financed operations.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    Financing services as in gambling on market? Or making their products more easily bought? After all we are talking about products in most expensive things average buyer owns.
- xyzzy123 4y ago
  Some TSLA investors are in it for the car manufacturing and others are there for the lulz / meme stock value. Elon and bitcoin provide a lot of value and fun for the latter class of investor. Matt Levine (bloomberg) has some amusing but also thought provoking takes on this.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  As an investor I actually agree. However its not like this move risked the company or anything. So it was not that concerning at all. Actually I think they should have done smaller investment in bitcoin earlier. When they did it was pretty late already. That said, as an investor it actually took about 1000x more media attention then it actually mattered in the actual investment thesis. It made the Q end results a bit wonky but that's about it.
throwawayalala 4y ago
Elon pumped and dumped Bitcoin which is a scam in itself. His factories are bleeding money. His autonomous vehicle project is in shambles. All of the other car companies in world are going long on EVs (factories that don't bleed money). And the stock is up 10%. I don't understand it at all.
- ratsmack 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- NLPlatypus 4y ago
  ? Tesla just posted another quarter with billions in profits. The Model 3 is in the top ten selling cars, globally. They’re still selling far more than they can make.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits to Ford and GM so they could continue selling tons of trucks and SUVs. But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      > Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? Yes. You information is very out of date. Its the information that Tesla critics had to fall back to once they became profitable. To anybody with even minimal understanding of the buissness knew that this was just temporary and Tesla was heading toward profitability very fast. But for a few quarters one could right good articles saying 'only profitable because credits'. This has been over for a while, fuel credits have dropped of a huge amount and every quarter they are a fall smaller part of revenue. > My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits First of all, fuel credits are not subsidies. They are punishment for companies that don't comply to regulation. > But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs. Tesla has not received the tax subsidies for many years now. Those Subsidies getting removed would actually benefit Tesla. Fuel credits will not be phased out, in fact they might increase more in the future. And they will continue to exist in Europe as well. People that since 2014 have been arguing that fuel credits are almost gone because every company is gone do EV soon have miscalculated. Fuel credits are gone continue to be a part of the story for EV companies but as Tesla continues to grow its an ever smaller part. Tesla has industry leading operational margin will growing around 50% YoY.
guenthert 4y ago
And how much did they lose? Not sure, why NPR couldn't spell that out. So in January 2021 when bitcoin was about $33k, Tesla bought bitcoin for the song of some $1.5e9, now they sold 75% of it when bitcoin in $23k. Guess they needed to save on taxes ...
- TrueSlacker0 4y ago
  Cashflow is king.
- hackernudes 4y ago
  The reason NPR didn't spell it out is because Tesla has not spelled out what exactly their prices were for acquiring and for selling their Bitcoin. We are left to guess. In their earnings call they said they sold for a "realized gain" but then said something about "impairment charges".
mrtweetyhack 4y ago

46 points by algoatecorn 4y ago

I'm surprised the price didn't fall more

Makes no sense that a car manufacturer is speculating on exotic financial investments. You buy shares of an automaker expecting cars and related stuff. It's the same that Tesla betting its capital in the Super Bowl.

jimmydorry 4y ago
Most of the other car manufacturers make a majority of their money on financing services rather than making and selling cars. How is Tesla parking money in Bitcoin much different when most of them are essentially atttempting to make money outside their specialty?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > How is Tesla parking money in Bitcoin much different when most of them are essentially atttempting to make money outside their specialty? Car manufacturing is cash intensive. When car companies finance car purchases, they’re rarely doing so off balance sheet. They aren’t parking money; when they felt the need to they historically returned it to shareholders. Tesla financed its Bitcoin wager off balance sheet. It lost cash on the adventure, cash which could have financed operations.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Financing services as in gambling on market? Or making their products more easily bought? After all we are talking about products in most expensive things average buyer owns.
xyzzy123 4y ago
Some TSLA investors are in it for the car manufacturing and others are there for the lulz / meme stock value. Elon and bitcoin provide a lot of value and fun for the latter class of investor. Matt Levine (bloomberg) has some amusing but also thought provoking takes on this.
panick21_ 4y ago
As an investor I actually agree. However its not like this move risked the company or anything. So it was not that concerning at all. Actually I think they should have done smaller investment in bitcoin earlier. When they did it was pretty late already. That said, as an investor it actually took about 1000x more media attention then it actually mattered in the actual investment thesis. It made the Q end results a bit wonky but that's about it.

throwawayalala 4y ago

Elon pumped and dumped Bitcoin which is a scam in itself. His factories are bleeding money. His autonomous vehicle project is in shambles. All of the other car companies in world are going long on EVs (factories that don't bleed money). And the stock is up 10%. I don't understand it at all.

ratsmack 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
NLPlatypus 4y ago
? Tesla just posted another quarter with billions in profits. The Model 3 is in the top ten selling cars, globally. They’re still selling far more than they can make.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits to Ford and GM so they could continue selling tons of trucks and SUVs. But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    > Would they be posting billions in profits without subsidies? Yes. You information is very out of date. Its the information that Tesla critics had to fall back to once they became profitable. To anybody with even minimal understanding of the buissness knew that this was just temporary and Tesla was heading toward profitability very fast. But for a few quarters one could right good articles saying 'only profitable because credits'. This has been over for a while, fuel credits have dropped of a huge amount and every quarter they are a fall smaller part of revenue. > My understanding is that for several years, they were only profitable because they were selling fuel efficiency credits First of all, fuel credits are not subsidies. They are punishment for companies that don't comply to regulation. > But those subsidies are going to be phased out and there will also be less demand for them as the big makers sell more EVs. Tesla has not received the tax subsidies for many years now. Those Subsidies getting removed would actually benefit Tesla. Fuel credits will not be phased out, in fact they might increase more in the future. And they will continue to exist in Europe as well. People that since 2014 have been arguing that fuel credits are almost gone because every company is gone do EV soon have miscalculated. Fuel credits are gone continue to be a part of the story for EV companies but as Tesla continues to grow its an ever smaller part. Tesla has industry leading operational margin will growing around 50% YoY.

guenthert 4y ago

And how much did they lose? Not sure, why NPR couldn't spell that out. So in January 2021 when bitcoin was about $33k, Tesla bought bitcoin for the song of some $1.5e9, now they sold 75% of it when bitcoin in $23k. Guess they needed to save on taxes ...

TrueSlacker0 4y ago
Cashflow is king.
hackernudes 4y ago
The reason NPR didn't spell it out is because Tesla has not spelled out what exactly their prices were for acquiring and for selling their Bitcoin. We are left to guess. In their earnings call they said they sold for a "realized gain" but then said something about "impairment charges".

mrtweetyhack 4y ago