6 ms·

> Occupy failed for many reasons but primarily it failed because it couldn’t get funded. Donor class and corporate sponsorship are required for progressives to

> Occupy failed for many reasons but primarily it failed because it couldn’t get funded. Donor class and corporate sponsorship are required for progressives to attain the power they want. Class warfare - the traditional progressive cause - died and gave birth to a new identity politics (we call it Woke today) that could get funded. Yup, my interpretation was the corporations / government funded the woke politics to divide. If you review the old Soviet era plans to bring down America it was effectively to focus on inflaming racial tension. That’s effectively what critical race theory is, instead of class dynamics you have racial dynamics; the end goal is the same. Gain power through a divide and conquer strategy to bring in an era where all are “equal”, some are just more equal than others.

greedo 4y ago
This displays a fundamental misunderstanding of CRT.
- lettergram 4y ago
  I’ve read a few books on the subject. They explain that as the objective in the early work. So no don’t really think so, I think most people don’t take the time to understand / read context.
  - claudiawerner 4y ago
    Can you say which books you're talking about, and by which authors? I've also read my fair share of CRT, but mostly papers from the last 10 years rather than books, so I'm curious who you're referencing.
- kwere 4y ago
  are the results different? i cant believe in usa the divide between black and white are bigger than being poor or middle class. certantly there are certain big picture "identity" dinamics (or the remaints) at plays, but to solve social issues the solution are simple and proven across countries and time. lift the poor out of poverty with economic and social chances (effective education is a simple solution) and control the problems originated by poverty in those communities by law and by "social" investments. the CRT discourse looks, behave? and talks like a divide et impera
  - greedo 4y ago
    I think you're underestimating the effect of racism in the US. The economic and social chances you're using as a remedy for poverty are absent for many minorities, and the CRT discourse is all about why. There's a huge contingent in the US that believes that any attempt to address "the problems originated by poverty in those communities by law and by "social" investments" is socialism, or reverse racism or giving preferential treatment to minorities.
    - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
      Is CRT specifically actionable? Does it suggest anything we can do for racial disparities (besides awareness) that we don't need to do for poverty anyway? And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa (i.e. poor American blacks vs. rich African blacks)? I hear that despite Harvard students being 15% black, the number of undergrads actually descended from slaves can be counted on one's hands.
      - pxc 4y ago
        (I'm not sure that you need this additional context, but benefit from it) > Is CRT specifically actionable? Setting aside for a moment what is CRT, there are debates about problems related to actionability in different accounts of racism on the left. One critique of some accounts is that they are too pessimistic, too mysterious, and too inactionable. You might find this read interesting as an example: https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-afro-pessimism-reparations-class-struggle https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-... > And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa Some black activists, especially among those demanding reparations for slavery, have sought to form a movement around this question. It's called 'The American Descendants of Slaves' movement. If you Google 'ADOS' you can find movement websites and both sides in various debates
        ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
bergenty 4y ago
No, any reaction to “woke” happened later and unfortunately comes from the worst possible places. Woke fits in way more with the general culture than racism and sexism on the GOP spectrum does. Am I going to jump to a conclusion that corporate America deliberately boosted racist perspectives to divide us? No, because that’s not rational and you’re driven by an agenda.
- rayiner 4y ago
  American culture, and most minorities themselves, still embraces color blindness,[1][2] which wokeness rejects. And it embraces being proud of America and it’s history, which wokeness rejects.[3] Arguments about “GOP racism” might be justified if they were the ones constantly talking about people’s race, but they’re not. In my 33 years in America a Republican has never dared to call me “brown” or “a person of color” or lumped me in with a grab bag of other minorities based solely on skin color. They’re not the ones fighting to legalize discrimination against my kids.[4] My family immigrated to Reagan’s America, where my brother and I could compete on objective standards. My kids will grow up in an America where they’ll have to compete by telling some story about their grandfather growing up in a village in Bangladesh, hoping to appeal to the subjective aesthetics of some white administrator.[5] It’s not the GOP doing that. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/05/08/americans-see-advantages-and-challenges-in-countrys-growing-racial-and-ethnic-diversity https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/05/08/america... [2] https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2022/05/02/poll-finds-public-doesnt-favor-affirmative-action https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2022/05/02... [3] https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/working-class-and-hispanic-voters https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/working-class-and-h... [4] https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2021/12/09/biden-administration-backs-harvard-in-affirmative-action-suit/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2021/12/09/biden-adm... [5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/thomas-jefferson-high-admissions-fairfax/2020/12/18/d09a2b3c-40b9-11eb-8bc0-ae155bee4aff_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/thomas-jeffer...
  - musicale 4y ago
    [2] is interesting, saying "For gender, 82 percent think it shouldn’t be considered" in admissions decisions. However, many universities seem to be opposed to having an imbalance, a situation that would presumably be expected given the gap in high school graduation rates.
hypertele-Xii 4y ago
> to bring in an era where all are “equal”, some are just more equal than others. But that's the era where you are now. Consider the humble speeding ticket. Same flat fee for everyone. Well that means rich people can afford to break the rules. In a "more equal" nation like Finland, speeding tickets are income proportional. A billionaire speeding is gonna pay a huge fine, and that's what makes it fair.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  But this is fundamentally different. It is the same percentage of income for everyone and is based on the individual. It isn't based of some caste or group membership, which is a key component of woke policies. Ironically the same fault as people with prejudices towards groups extrapolating to individuals..

greedo 4y ago

This displays a fundamental misunderstanding of CRT.

lettergram 4y ago
I’ve read a few books on the subject. They explain that as the objective in the early work. So no don’t really think so, I think most people don’t take the time to understand / read context.
- claudiawerner 4y ago
  Can you say which books you're talking about, and by which authors? I've also read my fair share of CRT, but mostly papers from the last 10 years rather than books, so I'm curious who you're referencing.
kwere 4y ago
are the results different? i cant believe in usa the divide between black and white are bigger than being poor or middle class. certantly there are certain big picture "identity" dinamics (or the remaints) at plays, but to solve social issues the solution are simple and proven across countries and time. lift the poor out of poverty with economic and social chances (effective education is a simple solution) and control the problems originated by poverty in those communities by law and by "social" investments. the CRT discourse looks, behave? and talks like a divide et impera
- greedo 4y ago
  I think you're underestimating the effect of racism in the US. The economic and social chances you're using as a remedy for poverty are absent for many minorities, and the CRT discourse is all about why. There's a huge contingent in the US that believes that any attempt to address "the problems originated by poverty in those communities by law and by "social" investments" is socialism, or reverse racism or giving preferential treatment to minorities.
  - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
    Is CRT specifically actionable? Does it suggest anything we can do for racial disparities (besides awareness) that we don't need to do for poverty anyway? And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa (i.e. poor American blacks vs. rich African blacks)? I hear that despite Harvard students being 15% black, the number of undergrads actually descended from slaves can be counted on one's hands.
    - pxc 4y ago
      (I'm not sure that you need this additional context, but benefit from it) > Is CRT specifically actionable? Setting aside for a moment what is CRT, there are debates about problems related to actionability in different accounts of racism on the left. One critique of some accounts is that they are too pessimistic, too mysterious, and too inactionable. You might find this read interesting as an example: https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-afro-pessimism-reparations-class-struggle https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-... > And while we're at it, why do US-based affirmative action programs not distinguish between descendants of slaves and recent immigrants from Africa Some black activists, especially among those demanding reparations for slavery, have sought to form a movement around this question. It's called 'The American Descendants of Slaves' movement. If you Google 'ADOS' you can find movement websites and both sides in various debates
      - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago

bergenty 4y ago

No, any reaction to “woke” happened later and unfortunately comes from the worst possible places. Woke fits in way more with the general culture than racism and sexism on the GOP spectrum does. Am I going to jump to a conclusion that corporate America deliberately boosted racist perspectives to divide us? No, because that’s not rational and you’re driven by an agenda.

rayiner 4y ago
American culture, and most minorities themselves, still embraces color blindness,[1][2] which wokeness rejects. And it embraces being proud of America and it’s history, which wokeness rejects.[3] Arguments about “GOP racism” might be justified if they were the ones constantly talking about people’s race, but they’re not. In my 33 years in America a Republican has never dared to call me “brown” or “a person of color” or lumped me in with a grab bag of other minorities based solely on skin color. They’re not the ones fighting to legalize discrimination against my kids.[4] My family immigrated to Reagan’s America, where my brother and I could compete on objective standards. My kids will grow up in an America where they’ll have to compete by telling some story about their grandfather growing up in a village in Bangladesh, hoping to appeal to the subjective aesthetics of some white administrator.[5] It’s not the GOP doing that. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/05/08/americans-see-advantages-and-challenges-in-countrys-growing-racial-and-ethnic-diversity https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/05/08/america... [2] https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2022/05/02/poll-finds-public-doesnt-favor-affirmative-action https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2022/05/02... [3] https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/working-class-and-hispanic-voters https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/working-class-and-h... [4] https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2021/12/09/biden-administration-backs-harvard-in-affirmative-action-suit/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2021/12/09/biden-adm... [5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/thomas-jefferson-high-admissions-fairfax/2020/12/18/d09a2b3c-40b9-11eb-8bc0-ae155bee4aff_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/thomas-jeffer...
- musicale 4y ago
  [2] is interesting, saying "For gender, 82 percent think it shouldn’t be considered" in admissions decisions. However, many universities seem to be opposed to having an imbalance, a situation that would presumably be expected given the gap in high school graduation rates.

hypertele-Xii 4y ago

> to bring in an era where all are “equal”, some are just more equal than others. But that's the era where you are now. Consider the humble speeding ticket. Same flat fee for everyone. Well that means rich people can afford to break the rules. In a "more equal" nation like Finland, speeding tickets are income proportional. A billionaire speeding is gonna pay a huge fine, and that's what makes it fair.

raxxorraxor 4y ago
But this is fundamentally different. It is the same percentage of income for everyone and is based on the individual. It isn't based of some caste or group membership, which is a key component of woke policies. Ironically the same fault as people with prejudices towards groups extrapolating to individuals..