4 ms·

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between. I

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between. I don't care how nice the a place it is to work, I'm not applying to the $70k place. If I can't quickly figure out where you fall on that spectrum, I'm not going to bother to contact you because job listings are not rare. If you somehow manage to present as exactly the perfect place to work, I might contact you—to ask what the salary range is, and if you won't say up-front, I'm out. It takes exactly one time sitting through interviews, having everyone be super excited about hiring you, then naming a totally normal rate when they ask what salary you're looking for, and watching everyone's faces turn green, to never, ever waste time doing that again. I've had mine already.

bragr 4y ago
What you are likely running into the the trimodal nature of software salaries [1] that has been extensively discussed here on HN in the past. tl;dr there exists (supposedly) in the global market, 3 tiers of tech companies, with 3 distinct salary ranges. [1] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...
gernb 4y ago
Honestly I'm considering the $70k place where as right now I have the $500k total comp. I can't say I hate my job but I have zero interest in it. Where as I had lots of <$100k jobs I loved. My life was better. I only get one life. I'd prefer to live a happy life than a well paid life. Right now I get paid well but my life feels like it's just bleeding away as a drone. The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger is there's no guarntee that taking the $70k will actually be fun this time. I have my criteria for taking the jump though and if they're met I'd do it in a heartbeat.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Save for one year then take 6 years off and come out roughly the same. That seems like an absolute no-brainer to me.
  - ricardobeat 4y ago
    Not possible because their $500k/year likely only materializes after vesting. Leaving after only 3-4 years on the job would mean the realized yearly comp is closer to 200-250k.
    - devoutsalsa 4y ago
      My last job started vesting on Day 1. It was pretty nice.
    - daggerdrone 4y ago
      Sorry but that's not how it works. $500k/year would mean roughly $250k base+bonus and $1 million of stocks vested over four years. And at most companies, the vesting starts after 1 year. So at the end of year one, you would have made $500k in base+bonus+stocks. And after that you would usually get the stocks every quarter so $62.5k worth of stocks every quarter. I am not sure where is your figure of 200-250k Total Comp coming from?
      - ricardobeat 4y ago
        When someone says $500k/year, they usually mean a package like $150k base + $350k stocks with yearly grants. For the standard 4-year vesting schedule, and assuming a new $350k grant every year, this means actual earnings are: Year 1: $150k + $0 $150k Year 2: $150k + $87.5k $237.5k Year 3: $150k + $87.5k*2 $325k Year 4: $150k + $87.5k*3 $412k If you leave here, at year 4, and lose all unvested options (expected), your actual average was $281k/year. Only by year 5 you'll finally actually earn the $500k/year, and the vesting schedule has such an impact on the early earnings that even after a decade, your yearly average is still $400k. Not to forget taxes. So the idea to "save for one year then take 6 years off" is kinda off the menu unless they've been at the company for a long, long time, or are willing to spend those 6 years living in Thailand.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        $500K / year at year four is something entirely different than $500K / year. And that's what the OP said they were making.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  I've found lower paying jobs typically treat you worse but YMMV.
  - jcadam 4y ago
    Yep, funny how that goes but it's true.
    - LastMuel 4y ago
      You don't kick your prize chicken.
- kinnth 4y ago
  Yeah 500k all day. People love to preach about secondary benefits, but cold hard cash allows you to pay for most benefits you actually want. I think work is work, the more a workplaces tries to trick you into believing you're in a family or home environment they're not being clear on the work. Competency trumps all benefits.
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    Thing is, people live different lifestyles with different priorities. Sure, if they could press a button and make more, they would, but in reality getting a higher salary requires to change jobs and they often have concerns about moving to a new place, doing something different, working with new people, wondering if they are going to like it or not, which ends up in them settling for a lower salary, especially if that salary covers everything they wanna do. Often those thoughts are irrational, but thats how humans function.
- brailsafe 4y ago
  I can see how it sounds pretentious, but it's somewhat true. After you have the limits of your financial investments explorable, you aren't just going to ignore the potentially soul destroying daily grind. You do it if it does something for you, and if you're basically rich, you might as put your energy in a different place. But you're right, the 70k place might be just as much work, but they just don't make that much money, or any other series of situations.
- badpun 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, what were those sub-$100k jobs you loved?
- flippinburgers 4y ago
  We can swap if you like. I make $55K.
- exadeci 4y ago
  There exists jobs that would be better paid than the $70k and be more fun than the soul crushing very high income terrible job.
- lytefm 4y ago
  Let's say you're in your 20s, single and want to travel the world. 500k requires you to live in San Francisco, commute to the office every day at strict hours and is at a soul crushing, bureaucratic big corp. 70k allows you to work from anywhere in the world, async an on your own schedule. Also, you get more vacation. 6k USD per month is a lot in many countries. If you want to live now not later, I can see why you'd choose the 70k job.
  - cowvin 4y ago
    That's true, but you could also just work the 500k job for 5 years and then possibly (semi) retire. 2.5 million before taxes is a pretty nice chunk to have before your late 20s. It's just delayed gratification.
ClayM 4y ago
i ran into a regional bank who wanted to pay a principal engineer $115K to build their entire digital customer facing platform i was stunned
- devoutsalsa 4y ago
  Plot twist, that was the monthly rate.

bragr 4y ago

What you are likely running into the the trimodal nature of software salaries [1] that has been extensively discussed here on HN in the past. tl;dr there exists (supposedly) in the global market, 3 tiers of tech companies, with 3 distinct salary ranges. [1] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...

gernb 4y ago

Honestly I'm considering the $70k place where as right now I have the $500k total comp. I can't say I hate my job but I have zero interest in it. Where as I had lots of <$100k jobs I loved. My life was better. I only get one life. I'd prefer to live a happy life than a well paid life. Right now I get paid well but my life feels like it's just bleeding away as a drone. The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger is there's no guarntee that taking the $70k will actually be fun this time. I have my criteria for taking the jump though and if they're met I'd do it in a heartbeat.

jacquesm 4y ago
Save for one year then take 6 years off and come out roughly the same. That seems like an absolute no-brainer to me.
- ricardobeat 4y ago
  Not possible because their $500k/year likely only materializes after vesting. Leaving after only 3-4 years on the job would mean the realized yearly comp is closer to 200-250k.
  - devoutsalsa 4y ago
    My last job started vesting on Day 1. It was pretty nice.
  - daggerdrone 4y ago
    Sorry but that's not how it works. $500k/year would mean roughly $250k base+bonus and $1 million of stocks vested over four years. And at most companies, the vesting starts after 1 year. So at the end of year one, you would have made $500k in base+bonus+stocks. And after that you would usually get the stocks every quarter so $62.5k worth of stocks every quarter. I am not sure where is your figure of 200-250k Total Comp coming from?
    - ricardobeat 4y ago
      When someone says $500k/year, they usually mean a package like $150k base + $350k stocks with yearly grants. For the standard 4-year vesting schedule, and assuming a new $350k grant every year, this means actual earnings are: Year 1: $150k + $0 $150k Year 2: $150k + $87.5k $237.5k Year 3: $150k + $87.5k*2 $325k Year 4: $150k + $87.5k*3 $412k If you leave here, at year 4, and lose all unvested options (expected), your actual average was $281k/year. Only by year 5 you'll finally actually earn the $500k/year, and the vesting schedule has such an impact on the early earnings that even after a decade, your yearly average is still $400k. Not to forget taxes. So the idea to "save for one year then take 6 years off" is kinda off the menu unless they've been at the company for a long, long time, or are willing to spend those 6 years living in Thailand.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        $500K / year at year four is something entirely different than $500K / year. And that's what the OP said they were making.
whimsicalism 4y ago
I've found lower paying jobs typically treat you worse but YMMV.
- jcadam 4y ago
  Yep, funny how that goes but it's true.
  - LastMuel 4y ago
    You don't kick your prize chicken.
kinnth 4y ago
Yeah 500k all day. People love to preach about secondary benefits, but cold hard cash allows you to pay for most benefits you actually want. I think work is work, the more a workplaces tries to trick you into believing you're in a family or home environment they're not being clear on the work. Competency trumps all benefits.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  Thing is, people live different lifestyles with different priorities. Sure, if they could press a button and make more, they would, but in reality getting a higher salary requires to change jobs and they often have concerns about moving to a new place, doing something different, working with new people, wondering if they are going to like it or not, which ends up in them settling for a lower salary, especially if that salary covers everything they wanna do. Often those thoughts are irrational, but thats how humans function.
brailsafe 4y ago
I can see how it sounds pretentious, but it's somewhat true. After you have the limits of your financial investments explorable, you aren't just going to ignore the potentially soul destroying daily grind. You do it if it does something for you, and if you're basically rich, you might as put your energy in a different place. But you're right, the 70k place might be just as much work, but they just don't make that much money, or any other series of situations.
badpun 4y ago
Out of curiosity, what were those sub-$100k jobs you loved?
flippinburgers 4y ago
We can swap if you like. I make $55K.
exadeci 4y ago
There exists jobs that would be better paid than the $70k and be more fun than the soul crushing very high income terrible job.
lytefm 4y ago
Let's say you're in your 20s, single and want to travel the world. 500k requires you to live in San Francisco, commute to the office every day at strict hours and is at a soul crushing, bureaucratic big corp. 70k allows you to work from anywhere in the world, async an on your own schedule. Also, you get more vacation. 6k USD per month is a lot in many countries. If you want to live now not later, I can see why you'd choose the 70k job.
- cowvin 4y ago
  That's true, but you could also just work the 500k job for 5 years and then possibly (semi) retire. 2.5 million before taxes is a pretty nice chunk to have before your late 20s. It's just delayed gratification.

ClayM 4y ago

i ran into a regional bank who wanted to pay a principal engineer $115K to build their entire digital customer facing platform i was stunned

devoutsalsa 4y ago
Plot twist, that was the monthly rate.