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I was recently in a wheelchair for a few weeks. Uber's ADA issues go beyond the scope of this lawsuit. Uber would consistently lie about the availability of a W

I was recently in a wheelchair for a few weeks. Uber's ADA issues go beyond the scope of this lawsuit. Uber would consistently lie about the availability of a WAV vehicle, showing one as being nearby with low wait. Then when I would order it, either nothing was available or the wait time was completely insane. I never successfully hailed one.

shagie 4y ago
In a regular taxi service for an area, the taxis are required to have ADA availability (and licensing for them needs to be available). For example https://www.understandingtheada.com/blog/2012/01/24/licensing-regulations-and-the-americans-with-disabilities-act/ https://www.understandingtheada.com/blog/2012/01/24/licensin... > Therefore the court ordered that the Commission to propose a comprehensive plan that provides meaningful access to taxi services for passengers using wheelchairs. The plan must include targeted goals and standards as well as anticipated measurable results. Furthermore, until such a plan was proposed and approved by the court, all new taxi medallions sold or new street hail livery licenses or permits issued by the Commission must be for wheelchair accessible vehicles. Some additional information - https://drhandicap.com/insights/can-taxis-refuse-service-based-on-disability/ https://drhandicap.com/insights/can-taxis-refuse-service-bas... While this is more expensive for the taxi company to have ADA vehicles, that cost is spread out across the entirety of the customer base. The difficulty comes with ride share that aren't licensed and displace taxi services resulting in difficulty spreading out the cost across all taxi rides... and that the ride share drivers (and companies) don't provide sufficient coverage is compared to the requirement for licensed taxis.
- TuringNYC 4y ago
  >> The difficulty comes with ride share that aren't licensed and displace taxi services resulting in difficulty spreading out the cost across all taxi rides... and that the ride share drivers (and companies) don't provide sufficient coverage is compared to the requirement for licensed taxis. Wouldnt it make sense for Uber to subsidize the ADA compliant drivers for their extra costs (or reduced yield) and then for Uber to spread that cost across their entire service?
  - shagie 4y ago
    I was referring to the existing taxi services. With Uber offering poor service for wheelchairs and similar, individuals needing those services remain using traditional taxis. Meanwhile, the regular riders (the bulk of the profits for a company) switch to Uber for whatever reason. This results in that the additional costs for handling riders that need the extra assistance are not borne by the unlicensed companies that are not providing the ADA services that the licensed companies are required to. If one was to go with a "{A} should subsidize {B} for ADA rides" this would be "Uber should subsidize taxi companies" for the increased proportion of wheelchair accessible vans and similar that the taxi companies are required to maintain. As it is, Uber isn't spreading any of the cost of ADA rides amongst their customers or drivers because (A) Uber doesn't have a sufficient set of vehicles available to address ADA and (B) Uber drivers are discriminating and not picking up passengers that have needs covered under the ADA.
BoorishBears 4y ago
Sitting in a hospital with discharge set for a few hours from now and expecting to use Uber WAV to get home with a broken leg... this is a little worrying.
- wanderr 4y ago
  Good luck! But I would start calling friends to see if someone can pick you up. My hospital explicitly said they would not discharge me to Uber, too
  - vivegi 4y ago
    Wow! I remember an exploratory conversation I had with the CEO of a large health insurance company's individual plan subsidiary and this was several years ago, a time when ridesharing was gaining traction. They were talking about partnering with rideshare companies for alternative patient transport (for non-emergencies). I guess that never took off.
  - shagie 4y ago
    Uber's attempt at Uber Health - https://www.uber.com/en-US/blog/hospital-uses/ https://www.uber.com/en-US/blog/hospital-uses/ American Medical Resource Institute guidance on discharges - https://www.aclsonline.us/blog/what-to-do-when-theres-no-one-to-drive-your-patient-home-1/ https://www.aclsonline.us/blog/what-to-do-when-theres-no-one... > You did your part and got your patient through surgery with flying colors. But, uh-oh, the ride your patient was expecting to get home is a no-show. What should your ASC do? > Well, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, your ASC has a legal obligation to only discharge patients to a responsible adult when they have been under the influence of sedation. > Unfortunately, now that Uber and Lyft are such convenient options for transportation, many patients think they can simply hop in a rideshare vehicle and that’s the same thing as being discharged to a caring family member or friend. > However, the law in many states is still unclear on whether a rideshare driver counts as a “responsible adult” who is actually taking responsibility for the patient’s care just by stepping into the vehicle. In fact, in a recent Outpatient Surgery Magazine poll, 69 percent of surgical facilities said they never discharge an unaccompanied patient to take an Uber, Lyft or taxi home.
mhuffman 4y ago
>Uber would consistently lie about the availability of a WAV vehicle Uber lies about the availability of all vehicles, I think! I live in a town where there are no Uber drivers, but if you open up the app it will show 3 available with times and prices and even let you book one! Of course it doesn't exist and they will never show up. I am not sure why they do this other then to look like they have coverage to shareholders or something.
- michaelbuckbee 4y ago
  Not defending the practice (which feels so dishonest) but it's a chicken and the egg thing of their on demand drivers system. I know there are drivers who basically sit at home and check the current rates and when it's "worth it" to them they walk out and jump in the car and do a few rides. That wouldn't happen if people were looking in the app seeing no drivers and not putting in that they needed a ride.
  - mhuffman 4y ago
    On the other hand, actually having at least one real driver would a) allow that driver to make bank by being basically a monopoly, until b) other real drivers saw this and entered the market making everything kosher.
    - capitalsigma 4y ago
      A monopoly with a TAM of $0 doesn't seem terribly interesting to me
      - mhuffman 4y ago
        I was under the impression that the drivers had some input into what they would be willing to drive for and competition would do the rest. But if Uber has internal caps, that would make critical mass impossible in smaller towns.
    - faddypaddy34 4y ago
c3534l 4y ago
They do that about everything. There are consistently a dozen nearby "available" drivers in the downtown area where I live within a 5 minute drive and I don't think I've ever actually gotten one of those drivers. I also frequently need rides early in the morning/late at night because of a weird work schedule. They also prominently advertise a discount for reserving a car two hours in advance and then proceed to charge me $15 dollars more than what it costs to get a ride at the time of night normally. It is worth it, so that I know I will have a ride at that time and that they will be there when I get out of work and I don't want to wait around for 30 minutes at 4am just to go home. But don't piss on my shoes and tell me its raining.

shagie 4y ago

In a regular taxi service for an area, the taxis are required to have ADA availability (and licensing for them needs to be available). For example https://www.understandingtheada.com/blog/2012/01/24/licensing-regulations-and-the-americans-with-disabilities-act/ https://www.understandingtheada.com/blog/2012/01/24/licensin... > Therefore the court ordered that the Commission to propose a comprehensive plan that provides meaningful access to taxi services for passengers using wheelchairs. The plan must include targeted goals and standards as well as anticipated measurable results. Furthermore, until such a plan was proposed and approved by the court, all new taxi medallions sold or new street hail livery licenses or permits issued by the Commission must be for wheelchair accessible vehicles. Some additional information - https://drhandicap.com/insights/can-taxis-refuse-service-based-on-disability/ https://drhandicap.com/insights/can-taxis-refuse-service-bas... While this is more expensive for the taxi company to have ADA vehicles, that cost is spread out across the entirety of the customer base. The difficulty comes with ride share that aren't licensed and displace taxi services resulting in difficulty spreading out the cost across all taxi rides... and that the ride share drivers (and companies) don't provide sufficient coverage is compared to the requirement for licensed taxis.

TuringNYC 4y ago
>> The difficulty comes with ride share that aren't licensed and displace taxi services resulting in difficulty spreading out the cost across all taxi rides... and that the ride share drivers (and companies) don't provide sufficient coverage is compared to the requirement for licensed taxis. Wouldnt it make sense for Uber to subsidize the ADA compliant drivers for their extra costs (or reduced yield) and then for Uber to spread that cost across their entire service?
- shagie 4y ago
  I was referring to the existing taxi services. With Uber offering poor service for wheelchairs and similar, individuals needing those services remain using traditional taxis. Meanwhile, the regular riders (the bulk of the profits for a company) switch to Uber for whatever reason. This results in that the additional costs for handling riders that need the extra assistance are not borne by the unlicensed companies that are not providing the ADA services that the licensed companies are required to. If one was to go with a "{A} should subsidize {B} for ADA rides" this would be "Uber should subsidize taxi companies" for the increased proportion of wheelchair accessible vans and similar that the taxi companies are required to maintain. As it is, Uber isn't spreading any of the cost of ADA rides amongst their customers or drivers because (A) Uber doesn't have a sufficient set of vehicles available to address ADA and (B) Uber drivers are discriminating and not picking up passengers that have needs covered under the ADA.

BoorishBears 4y ago

Sitting in a hospital with discharge set for a few hours from now and expecting to use Uber WAV to get home with a broken leg... this is a little worrying.

wanderr 4y ago
Good luck! But I would start calling friends to see if someone can pick you up. My hospital explicitly said they would not discharge me to Uber, too
- vivegi 4y ago
  Wow! I remember an exploratory conversation I had with the CEO of a large health insurance company's individual plan subsidiary and this was several years ago, a time when ridesharing was gaining traction. They were talking about partnering with rideshare companies for alternative patient transport (for non-emergencies). I guess that never took off.
- shagie 4y ago
  Uber's attempt at Uber Health - https://www.uber.com/en-US/blog/hospital-uses/ https://www.uber.com/en-US/blog/hospital-uses/ American Medical Resource Institute guidance on discharges - https://www.aclsonline.us/blog/what-to-do-when-theres-no-one-to-drive-your-patient-home-1/ https://www.aclsonline.us/blog/what-to-do-when-theres-no-one... > You did your part and got your patient through surgery with flying colors. But, uh-oh, the ride your patient was expecting to get home is a no-show. What should your ASC do? > Well, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, your ASC has a legal obligation to only discharge patients to a responsible adult when they have been under the influence of sedation. > Unfortunately, now that Uber and Lyft are such convenient options for transportation, many patients think they can simply hop in a rideshare vehicle and that’s the same thing as being discharged to a caring family member or friend. > However, the law in many states is still unclear on whether a rideshare driver counts as a “responsible adult” who is actually taking responsibility for the patient’s care just by stepping into the vehicle. In fact, in a recent Outpatient Surgery Magazine poll, 69 percent of surgical facilities said they never discharge an unaccompanied patient to take an Uber, Lyft or taxi home.

mhuffman 4y ago

>Uber would consistently lie about the availability of a WAV vehicle Uber lies about the availability of all vehicles, I think! I live in a town where there are no Uber drivers, but if you open up the app it will show 3 available with times and prices and even let you book one! Of course it doesn't exist and they will never show up. I am not sure why they do this other then to look like they have coverage to shareholders or something.

michaelbuckbee 4y ago
Not defending the practice (which feels so dishonest) but it's a chicken and the egg thing of their on demand drivers system. I know there are drivers who basically sit at home and check the current rates and when it's "worth it" to them they walk out and jump in the car and do a few rides. That wouldn't happen if people were looking in the app seeing no drivers and not putting in that they needed a ride.
- mhuffman 4y ago
  On the other hand, actually having at least one real driver would a) allow that driver to make bank by being basically a monopoly, until b) other real drivers saw this and entered the market making everything kosher.
  - capitalsigma 4y ago
    A monopoly with a TAM of $0 doesn't seem terribly interesting to me
    - mhuffman 4y ago
      I was under the impression that the drivers had some input into what they would be willing to drive for and competition would do the rest. But if Uber has internal caps, that would make critical mass impossible in smaller towns.
  - faddypaddy34 4y ago

c3534l 4y ago

They do that about everything. There are consistently a dozen nearby "available" drivers in the downtown area where I live within a 5 minute drive and I don't think I've ever actually gotten one of those drivers. I also frequently need rides early in the morning/late at night because of a weird work schedule. They also prominently advertise a discount for reserving a car two hours in advance and then proceed to charge me $15 dollars more than what it costs to get a ride at the time of night normally. It is worth it, so that I know I will have a ride at that time and that they will be there when I get out of work and I don't want to wait around for 30 minutes at 4am just to go home. But don't piss on my shoes and tell me its raining.