5 ms·

this is the necessary corollary to upholding "book culture." if you believe books are a cultured activity for those with high intelligence, empathy, work ethic

this is the necessary corollary to upholding "book culture." if you believe books are a cultured activity for those with high intelligence, empathy, work ethic, desire to learn, or other high-brow drive, there will necessarily be those who only engage in reading aesthetically. instead, let it be what it is: a pastime. no higher or lower than reddit or tv or mountain biking. sorry, writers.

hombre_fatal 4y ago
you can still rank ways to spend your time. try it. some pass times are more fulfilling than others. reddit and tv, i imagine, are at the bottom of the list for most people. meanwhile, i know for myself that i almost never regret time spent reading. can’t say the same for the spent on hn/netflix. so i don’t think it does much good to equate ways to spend time except as a coping mechanism for time poorly spent.
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > fulfilling Let us not forget duty.
- zemvpferreira 4y ago
  In that case you've had good luck with the books you've read. There are tons and tons of books that contribute much less to your life than a good subreddit, I can promise you that. Some books can damage you for life with ideas that are only sound absent other people to talk about with. Give the wrong teen a copy of Mein Kampf and watch what happens. I personally love film and books but these days I love reddit and youtube more. But like when you read good books, it will not do to let the gatekeepers guide your passive atention. You must hunt the prey, break the bones and suck out the marrow yourself. You'll find plenty of emotional and intellectual sustenance on digital mediums if you put in the work. Even on hacker news!
mdp2021 4y ago
I cannot even quote those blasphemies. Sure, if you believe you are born to yell at cars or whatever, the day you will do something different will be for the enjoyment of a duly exceptional vacation. But if you do not see the value of something, all chances are the issue is with your "eyes". Incidentally: among the well recognized functions of books, they are there to have selected, better company that those in mentioned "social networks gone bad" - even taking special cases into account. (Of course, you have to be able to perceive what "better" is.)
- xsmasher 4y ago
  Can you rewrite or break down your last sentence? I can not understand it.
  - bityard 4y ago
    It's not worth the bother. This is an exceptionally good example of intentionally obtuse writing, otherwise better known as good old fashioned BS!
    - mdp2021 4y ago
      If you cannot understand what people write, of course it will appear BS to you. The writing from here looks like the right one. Edit: about that «'intentionally'»: this is the way I think, this is the way I write. (Not precisely so, but the expression will be clear enough to those who want to understand it.)
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    No problem! > among the well recognized functions of books, they are there to have selected, better company that those in mentioned "social networks gone bad" - even taking special cases into account. (Of course, you have to be able to perceive what "better" is.) -- The text of a book represents, in the "good cases", an as-best-organized-as-possible expression of the refined thought of an author. That communication from such author is "company" you choose. It is a "selected acquaintance", picked to enrich you. It can be better than many other options, which will contain less value. -- With possible exceptions of very selected containers (whatever their elected term - 'subs'?) in «mentioned "social networks gone bad"», the general quality in the content found by commenters is very, very poor. So, the competition with a selected writer would be "not in the same league". If you took special cases of very well moderated, luckier containers, the collective effort could bring special value, yet we would be comparing quite different things (and the book would still be superior in some areas, e.g. structure). -- So, you may compare "material intended for growth" (the book) and "an involving experience" (the popular social network), but of course there is value to be recognized in order to appreciate the difference. You have to be able to recognize "better company" - otherwise, of course you will see little difference.
blockwriter 4y ago
Except that mountain biking, reddit, and tv are never up to the task of presenting secular solutions to the quandaries of the soul. Mountain biking, unlike reddit or tv, might provide a sense of purpose or fulfillment, but all of them are inadequate to the task of formalizing the nature of the human condition. Not all writing participates in the formalization and the resolution of our foremost concerns, but the best does.
- rowanG077 4y ago
  And why exactly are they inadequate? Can you explain this beyond just saying it is?
- mkaic 4y ago
  Most of the thought-provoking ideas, arguments, and "formalizations of the nature of the human condition" I've encountered in my life have come from movies, TV, or forum posts. Books are great, but let's not pretend they're somehow objectively superior to other media. It's all a matter of preference -- some people find books and reading to be the best source of wisdom for them, and others (like me) find other media to be much better. It varies from person to person because art is definitionally subjective.
  - blockwriter 4y ago
    Movies, TV, and forum posts are simply not old enough to enjoy the same legacy of robustly elucidated gnosis as do books. Books are objectively superior in that respect, although they are perhaps not absolutely superior, as other media could develop a similar capacity to articulate notions specific to the soul of man. I agree with you about wisdom, as wisdom is as wisdom does, and wisdom is different life to life, but knowing is an altogether distinct matter. It is naive to pretend there are no differences, not least because the mediums select for different persons.
    - LesZedCB 4y ago
robbintt 4y ago
On the surface, I agree. Books have taken us far, so lets not assume we've totally cracked why they work, though.
strix_varius 4y ago
My favorite people to talk to, read. Often a lot. Take from that what you will, since it's only a correlation found in one person's experience. Maybe reading indicates openness to the ideas of others? Maybe it indicates the ability to focus, to reflect? I don't know. But I've found enthusiasm for reading to be uncannily predictive.
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  my favorite people to talk to climb. often a lot. maybe climbing indicates openness to challenging yourself mentally and physically. maybe it indicates the ability to focus on movement, to enjoy presence in nature. i've found enthusiasm for rock climbing to be surprisingly predictive. the point is reading is not higher, special, or better. intelligence is not the only valuable Value
  - strix_varius 4y ago
    You sound like someone who doesn't like reading ;)
- kyleee 4y ago
  Same for me, I think it often correlates with curiosity which I enjoy a lot in myself and those with which I converse

hombre_fatal 4y ago

you can still rank ways to spend your time. try it. some pass times are more fulfilling than others. reddit and tv, i imagine, are at the bottom of the list for most people. meanwhile, i know for myself that i almost never regret time spent reading. can’t say the same for the spent on hn/netflix. so i don’t think it does much good to equate ways to spend time except as a coping mechanism for time poorly spent.

mdp2021 4y ago
> fulfilling Let us not forget duty.
zemvpferreira 4y ago
In that case you've had good luck with the books you've read. There are tons and tons of books that contribute much less to your life than a good subreddit, I can promise you that. Some books can damage you for life with ideas that are only sound absent other people to talk about with. Give the wrong teen a copy of Mein Kampf and watch what happens. I personally love film and books but these days I love reddit and youtube more. But like when you read good books, it will not do to let the gatekeepers guide your passive atention. You must hunt the prey, break the bones and suck out the marrow yourself. You'll find plenty of emotional and intellectual sustenance on digital mediums if you put in the work. Even on hacker news!

mdp2021 4y ago

I cannot even quote those blasphemies. Sure, if you believe you are born to yell at cars or whatever, the day you will do something different will be for the enjoyment of a duly exceptional vacation. But if you do not see the value of something, all chances are the issue is with your "eyes". Incidentally: among the well recognized functions of books, they are there to have selected, better company that those in mentioned "social networks gone bad" - even taking special cases into account. (Of course, you have to be able to perceive what "better" is.)

xsmasher 4y ago
Can you rewrite or break down your last sentence? I can not understand it.
- bityard 4y ago
  It's not worth the bother. This is an exceptionally good example of intentionally obtuse writing, otherwise better known as good old fashioned BS!
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    If you cannot understand what people write, of course it will appear BS to you. The writing from here looks like the right one. Edit: about that «'intentionally'»: this is the way I think, this is the way I write. (Not precisely so, but the expression will be clear enough to those who want to understand it.)
- mdp2021 4y ago
  No problem! > among the well recognized functions of books, they are there to have selected, better company that those in mentioned "social networks gone bad" - even taking special cases into account. (Of course, you have to be able to perceive what "better" is.) -- The text of a book represents, in the "good cases", an as-best-organized-as-possible expression of the refined thought of an author. That communication from such author is "company" you choose. It is a "selected acquaintance", picked to enrich you. It can be better than many other options, which will contain less value. -- With possible exceptions of very selected containers (whatever their elected term - 'subs'?) in «mentioned "social networks gone bad"», the general quality in the content found by commenters is very, very poor. So, the competition with a selected writer would be "not in the same league". If you took special cases of very well moderated, luckier containers, the collective effort could bring special value, yet we would be comparing quite different things (and the book would still be superior in some areas, e.g. structure). -- So, you may compare "material intended for growth" (the book) and "an involving experience" (the popular social network), but of course there is value to be recognized in order to appreciate the difference. You have to be able to recognize "better company" - otherwise, of course you will see little difference.

blockwriter 4y ago

Except that mountain biking, reddit, and tv are never up to the task of presenting secular solutions to the quandaries of the soul. Mountain biking, unlike reddit or tv, might provide a sense of purpose or fulfillment, but all of them are inadequate to the task of formalizing the nature of the human condition. Not all writing participates in the formalization and the resolution of our foremost concerns, but the best does.

rowanG077 4y ago
And why exactly are they inadequate? Can you explain this beyond just saying it is?
mkaic 4y ago
Most of the thought-provoking ideas, arguments, and "formalizations of the nature of the human condition" I've encountered in my life have come from movies, TV, or forum posts. Books are great, but let's not pretend they're somehow objectively superior to other media. It's all a matter of preference -- some people find books and reading to be the best source of wisdom for them, and others (like me) find other media to be much better. It varies from person to person because art is definitionally subjective.
- blockwriter 4y ago
  Movies, TV, and forum posts are simply not old enough to enjoy the same legacy of robustly elucidated gnosis as do books. Books are objectively superior in that respect, although they are perhaps not absolutely superior, as other media could develop a similar capacity to articulate notions specific to the soul of man. I agree with you about wisdom, as wisdom is as wisdom does, and wisdom is different life to life, but knowing is an altogether distinct matter. It is naive to pretend there are no differences, not least because the mediums select for different persons.
  - LesZedCB 4y ago

robbintt 4y ago

On the surface, I agree. Books have taken us far, so lets not assume we've totally cracked why they work, though.

strix_varius 4y ago

My favorite people to talk to, read. Often a lot. Take from that what you will, since it's only a correlation found in one person's experience. Maybe reading indicates openness to the ideas of others? Maybe it indicates the ability to focus, to reflect? I don't know. But I've found enthusiasm for reading to be uncannily predictive.

LesZedCB 4y ago
my favorite people to talk to climb. often a lot. maybe climbing indicates openness to challenging yourself mentally and physically. maybe it indicates the ability to focus on movement, to enjoy presence in nature. i've found enthusiasm for rock climbing to be surprisingly predictive. the point is reading is not higher, special, or better. intelligence is not the only valuable Value
- strix_varius 4y ago
  You sound like someone who doesn't like reading ;)
kyleee 4y ago
Same for me, I think it often correlates with curiosity which I enjoy a lot in myself and those with which I converse