4 ms·

Why is it an investment though? What's the expected return? How does that compare to other options?

laxd 4y ago
It's hard to predict the consequenses of fundamental sciences. Nevertheless, it's the ground where applied sciences and engineering grow.
ceejayoz 4y ago
> What's the expected return? Knowledge? How would you value the early experiments that eventually led to, say, germ theory on a monetary basis?
- quest88 4y ago
  Knowledge for what? What do we want to know? Is it for the sake of putting in a text book or showing neat pictures in a museum that people will forget about by the next exhibit? What did spending billions getting to the moon get us, bragging rights? What tangible benefit have we gotten from the space station and other space missions?
  - leothecool 4y ago
    "What is the use of a newborn child?" - Ben Franklin
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    An enormous amount of human achievement comes from basic research that didn’t have an immediate obvious use case. Relativity gives us GPS, for example.
  - accrual 4y ago
    > What tangible benefit have we gotten from the space station and other space missions? > Well-known products that NASA claims as spinoffs include memory foam (originally named temper foam), freeze-dried food, firefighting equipment, emergency "space blankets", DustBusters, cochlear implants, LZR Racer swimsuits, and CMOS image sensors. Plenty more in this well written list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies
    - quest88 4y ago
      Thanks! This is what I was looking for.
paulmd 4y ago
Who said "investment"? That's not a phrase that anyone here used prior to you bringing it up. Blue-sky science/hard science is not a financial instrument that you can reasonably expect to generate a 10x ROI on a predictable timeline, that's why it's blue-sky research, but it's nonetheless extremely important. Due to the lack of an immediately apparent profit incentive, it's one of those things that more or less has to be socialized or it doesn't happen. If there was an expectation of this leading to a better kleenex within 5 years then for-profit enterprises would already be doing it. But there isn't, yet there are still scientifically important questions to be answered by performing the research.
- quest88 4y ago
  Lol what. It's the title of the article. OP said "It is", referring to the title, that it is a good investment. "Most Americans think NASA’s $10 billion space telescope is a good investment" in case you missed it.
  - paulmd 4y ago
    That doesn't seem to carry the implication of an expected return-on-investment in a financial sense. Something can be a good investment and nonetheless operate at a loss. So to answer your question: the expected return is fundamental/hard science being performed that will lead to potential (but unknown) improvements to our understanding of astronomy, physics, and generally speaking our understanding of the fundamental fabric of our universe. It's also unclear why you replied to me if your comment was directed at the title of the article and not to anything I said in particular. Sheesh, typical Hacker News, like you really really needed someone to personally explain the concept of blue-sky/hard-science? Good afternoon to you too, mister roboto.
    - quest88 4y ago
      You said "It is". I was replying to you because you said it was a good investment, and I was questioning you why - to justify your opinion. The point is that I disagree that it is a good investment. The investment is gambling with unfavorable odds - we're hoping we get something out of it. Even if we learn something new from astronomy..so what? There are many problems on earth that could use $10B or more of NASAs space budget that have direct impact on lives.

laxd 4y ago

It's hard to predict the consequenses of fundamental sciences. Nevertheless, it's the ground where applied sciences and engineering grow.

ceejayoz 4y ago

> What's the expected return? Knowledge? How would you value the early experiments that eventually led to, say, germ theory on a monetary basis?

quest88 4y ago
Knowledge for what? What do we want to know? Is it for the sake of putting in a text book or showing neat pictures in a museum that people will forget about by the next exhibit? What did spending billions getting to the moon get us, bragging rights? What tangible benefit have we gotten from the space station and other space missions?
- leothecool 4y ago
  "What is the use of a newborn child?" - Ben Franklin
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  An enormous amount of human achievement comes from basic research that didn’t have an immediate obvious use case. Relativity gives us GPS, for example.
- accrual 4y ago
  > What tangible benefit have we gotten from the space station and other space missions? > Well-known products that NASA claims as spinoffs include memory foam (originally named temper foam), freeze-dried food, firefighting equipment, emergency "space blankets", DustBusters, cochlear implants, LZR Racer swimsuits, and CMOS image sensors. Plenty more in this well written list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies
  - quest88 4y ago
    Thanks! This is what I was looking for.

paulmd 4y ago

Who said "investment"? That's not a phrase that anyone here used prior to you bringing it up. Blue-sky science/hard science is not a financial instrument that you can reasonably expect to generate a 10x ROI on a predictable timeline, that's why it's blue-sky research, but it's nonetheless extremely important. Due to the lack of an immediately apparent profit incentive, it's one of those things that more or less has to be socialized or it doesn't happen. If there was an expectation of this leading to a better kleenex within 5 years then for-profit enterprises would already be doing it. But there isn't, yet there are still scientifically important questions to be answered by performing the research.

quest88 4y ago
Lol what. It's the title of the article. OP said "It is", referring to the title, that it is a good investment. "Most Americans think NASA’s $10 billion space telescope is a good investment" in case you missed it.
- paulmd 4y ago
  That doesn't seem to carry the implication of an expected return-on-investment in a financial sense. Something can be a good investment and nonetheless operate at a loss. So to answer your question: the expected return is fundamental/hard science being performed that will lead to potential (but unknown) improvements to our understanding of astronomy, physics, and generally speaking our understanding of the fundamental fabric of our universe. It's also unclear why you replied to me if your comment was directed at the title of the article and not to anything I said in particular. Sheesh, typical Hacker News, like you really really needed someone to personally explain the concept of blue-sky/hard-science? Good afternoon to you too, mister roboto.
  - quest88 4y ago
    You said "It is". I was replying to you because you said it was a good investment, and I was questioning you why - to justify your opinion. The point is that I disagree that it is a good investment. The investment is gambling with unfavorable odds - we're hoping we get something out of it. Even if we learn something new from astronomy..so what? There are many problems on earth that could use $10B or more of NASAs space budget that have direct impact on lives.