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I guess I don't disagree. I've switched between pro-EU and pro-Brexit positions over the last several years so I do get where you're coming from. If you're opt
by kypro 4y ago
I guess I don't disagree. I've switched between pro-EU and pro-Brexit positions over the last several years so I do get where you're coming from.
If you're optimising purely for economics then I don't think there's any question that remaining in the EU would have been the right decision. And yeah, I agree that sometimes compromise is just the cost of doing business.
The mistake you and a lot of remainers make though is to think Brexit is primarily about economics. Most of my family are on benefits and literally couldn't give a damn about what's in the best economic interests of the UK. I'm not saying that's right, but it is what it is. The problem people from my background have are more related to the social impacts of mass-migration and a lack of economic opportunities for low-skilled workers. From what I could understand that's why most of my family voted Brexit while most of my colleagues and university friends opposed it. I suspect the things that impact mine and your quality of life are different from that of my family.
I do think there's a place for an EU-like political entity that can set trade standards for the continent to encourage cross-border trade. The fundamental issue for me is that the EU as an organisation seems to be heading in the wrong direction. I'd personally prefer power to be more localised and closer to communities, where as the EU as an organisation seems to believe the trend should be in the opposite direction, towards ever more centralised power.
And they have a point.. If every nation state operates by different rules that's not good for multi-national corporations. But perhaps that's okay. Or at the very least it seems to me there's a trade off here. If there are things we can all agree on then it makes sense to have common rules, but enforcing agreement via a political union (or via any other means) generally isn't stable when opinions are too diverse. We see this even within the UK as political entity, but historically it's also clearly been true.
I guess what I'm saying is that perhaps what you see as economic costs have benefits which you might not appreciate as someone who largely agrees with the politics of the EU. It's like arguing to a Scot who dislikes the politics of Westminster that they'll be slightly worse off if they vote for Scottish independence. I think they get that, but they probably see the political opportunities of an independent Scotland as more important even if it comes with an economic cost.
- MattPalmer1086 4y agoThanks for your considered reply. It's good for us to understand the different points of view in this. I am indeed a remainer, although I was not motivated primarily by the economics. I just felt European, and mostly glad to be part of it. I could see problems with it, but nothing is perfect. I believed we would all likely be poorer out of it. I get the immigration issue was important to many people, although immigration is now higher than it was before Brexit. Just not from the EU. Everyone had different reasons and motivations at the end of the day, rightly or wrongly as it may turn out. I am glad we can have this conversation though, it's still rare I find. Edit: tried to find source for my claim migration is higher, as I remember seeing it, but can't find it. ONS says from 2021 it was down a little bit overall.
- rndmio 4y ago> If every nation state operates by different rules that's not good for multi-national corporations. Multi national corporations don’t really care whether the rules are homogenous or not, they’re big enough to do whatever they need to to sell their goods and services in whichever markets they want. The single market was actually more of a benefit for smaller companies, allowing them to sell to 500m people without having to worry about customs declarations, country specific safety certifications etc. There are many many examples of small producers having to stop selling to EU customers after Brexit because of the added cost and bureaucracy.