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You are right, of course, and I know the kids will be all right, but - I have a hard time taking any reassurance from this. Civilization will probably not colla

You are right, of course, and I know the kids will be all right, but - I have a hard time taking any reassurance from this. Civilization will probably not collapse, but all wild places everywhere will be destroyed; there is no stopping it anymore. A world completely dominated by humans sounds like a miserable, ugly, suffocating kind of place, and I'm glad I won't have to live in it.

ch4s3 4y ago
> but all wild places everywhere will be destroyed I don't know about that. Forests are coming back in Europe and North America. As people get richer, they value those things more. Population will peak by the end of the century and decline for a while after that. At that point people and animals will have a lot more breathing room. We can put a price on nature now and start paying for conservation. Places like Costa Rica also offer really useful paths forward. A lot is possible if people who care don't give in to despair.
- marssaxman 4y ago
  I am sure there will continue to be many parks and groves and "natural" areas, carefully managed by humans, in order to meet various human needs, and many people will enjoy the time they spend working on them or visiting them. But that's not the wildness I wish we could have left alone - untouched, busy with its own devices, for its own sake.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    There probably hasn't been much "untouched" (by humans) wilderness anywhere since the Pleistocene. Basically all of North America was managed by fire and shaped into effectively a giant game park by indigenous peoples as the glaciers retreated. The Amazon basin was similarly intensively managed with burning, flood controls, and mound building. You'll find similar interventions in the land across the old world as well.
    - marssaxman 4y ago
      Yes, it has certainly been disappointing to learn, over the years, just how little there is left we could even attempt to preserve. Of course none of it matters anymore as it will all be damaged by climate change.
      - ch4s3 4y ago
        I think knowing that people have been actively managing whole landscapes and ecosystems for as long as people have existed should inspire hope. Climate Change isn't insurmountable and a lot of damage can be repaired. If we want more vibrant and ecologically diverse landscapes in the future, we have the ability to make that happen. Even without a well coordinated global effort emissions growth is slowing, and declining in many places. In the US emissions have been declining for 15 years, and that's almost entirely driven by market forces and technology. Even a modest coordinated effort will make a huge difference over the coming decades.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

ch4s3 4y ago

> but all wild places everywhere will be destroyed I don't know about that. Forests are coming back in Europe and North America. As people get richer, they value those things more. Population will peak by the end of the century and decline for a while after that. At that point people and animals will have a lot more breathing room. We can put a price on nature now and start paying for conservation. Places like Costa Rica also offer really useful paths forward. A lot is possible if people who care don't give in to despair.

marssaxman 4y ago
I am sure there will continue to be many parks and groves and "natural" areas, carefully managed by humans, in order to meet various human needs, and many people will enjoy the time they spend working on them or visiting them. But that's not the wildness I wish we could have left alone - untouched, busy with its own devices, for its own sake.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  There probably hasn't been much "untouched" (by humans) wilderness anywhere since the Pleistocene. Basically all of North America was managed by fire and shaped into effectively a giant game park by indigenous peoples as the glaciers retreated. The Amazon basin was similarly intensively managed with burning, flood controls, and mound building. You'll find similar interventions in the land across the old world as well.
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    Yes, it has certainly been disappointing to learn, over the years, just how little there is left we could even attempt to preserve. Of course none of it matters anymore as it will all be damaged by climate change.
    - ch4s3 4y ago
      I think knowing that people have been actively managing whole landscapes and ecosystems for as long as people have existed should inspire hope. Climate Change isn't insurmountable and a lot of damage can be repaired. If we want more vibrant and ecologically diverse landscapes in the future, we have the ability to make that happen. Even without a well coordinated global effort emissions growth is slowing, and declining in many places. In the US emissions have been declining for 15 years, and that's almost entirely driven by market forces and technology. Even a modest coordinated effort will make a huge difference over the coming decades.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]