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It caught my eye as well. If you imagine a real car, this is the sort of detailed sensor data you would get from it. The sensor data in the game is never wron

by RajT88 4y ago

It caught my eye as well. If you imagine a real car, this is the sort of detailed sensor data you would get from it. The sensor data in the game is never wrong though, as it comes direct from memory. The other thing which caught my eye was this: > For example, GT Sophy often drops a wheel onto the grass at the edge of the track and then skids into turns. This works consistently because (again) it's not the real world where the grass has subtle variations. It would be very interesting indeed to see such an AI compete on a real track, but it may not be as clear cut a victory when the very finely tuned senses of a human racing driver are in play.

richiezc 4y ago
>> For example, GT Sophy often drops a wheel onto the grass at the edge of the track and then skids into turns. > This works consistently because (again) it's not the real world where the grass has subtle variations. Well I mean maybe they just trained it on Initial D anime, Sony is a Japanese company after all
lowbloodsugar 4y ago
Fundamentally, despite the claims, Gran Turismo isn't a very good driving physics simulator.
ascagnel_ 4y ago
> It would be very interesting indeed to see such an AI compete on a real track, but it may not be as clear cut a victory when the very finely tuned senses of a human racing driver are in play. Roborace[0][1] was an attempt at an all-AI racing series that would be run parallel to Formula E (the all-electric single-seater racing series); however, while they did get to the point that they could run cars on track, they never got to the point where they could run those cars in competition. It seems to be defunct, having been renamed "Arrival R" after the core technologies were purchased by one of the teams that had intended to enter the series.[2] 0: https://roborace.com https://roborace.com 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborace 2: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-tech%2C-development-and-manufacturing/arrival-writes-roborace-autonomous-racing https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-tech%2C-developm...
cdkmoose 4y ago
F1 drivers do the same thing through a chicane or wide on a curve to maintain speed, leaving the smoothest road surface for that advantage (not the skidding).
- t0mas88 4y ago
  That's about taking a different line. Drivers will start as far out on the kerb as possible to make the overall turn less tight, allowing them to take that turn at a higher speed. What this AI was doing is something that only works in sim-racing. It's done by humans sometimes in iRacing. Drop a wheel on the grass to make use of the fact that the sim will cause a consistent rotation (yaw) from it. Which can help turn a car into a corner. It can't be done in reality, because the effect on the car isn't predictable on a real race track.
  - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
    > It can't be done in reality, because the effect on the car isn't predictable on a real race track. Maybe a driver could work it out in training for a single race and in a certain corner but the cost of getting it wrong is not only not finishing the race but also having a race car in the barrier, so a damaged car. On a race track, drivers usually know characteristics of every corner for selected weather conditions. For example: at the Nordschleife, exit of Foxhole into Adenauer Forst is safe to cut in the dry but a no no in the wet, unless you’re in a GT3 class car with enough downforce. It is the same with kerbs, stay out of then when it is wet, use them in the dry. But it’s all touch and go when the conditions change and sometimes that leads to a crash.
  - MikeBVaughn 4y ago
    The modeling in iRacing is really striking in that way. It's good enough in practice that driving in the sim is extremely convincing, which makes the odd methods of exploiting the physics model that much more striking. I saw a video a few months ago of people running an endurance race in iRacing, and they'd consistently drop their left-side (IIRC, it could have been right) tires off the track on a specific straightaway. My understanding is that a) they didn't lose that much speed, b) because of the reasons stated previously, it's fairly safe in the sim, and c) it kept the front left tire temperatures closer to the optimum for the full duration of the lap. Thinking on it, one of the things I found cool was that, in a way, it's not entirely unlike what real drivers will do with wet-weather tires, where they sacrifice the best line to hunt for wetter stretches.

by RajT88 4y ago

richiezc 4y ago

>> For example, GT Sophy often drops a wheel onto the grass at the edge of the track and then skids into turns. > This works consistently because (again) it's not the real world where the grass has subtle variations. Well I mean maybe they just trained it on Initial D anime, Sony is a Japanese company after all

lowbloodsugar 4y ago

Fundamentally, despite the claims, Gran Turismo isn't a very good driving physics simulator.

ascagnel_ 4y ago

> It would be very interesting indeed to see such an AI compete on a real track, but it may not be as clear cut a victory when the very finely tuned senses of a human racing driver are in play. Roborace[0][1] was an attempt at an all-AI racing series that would be run parallel to Formula E (the all-electric single-seater racing series); however, while they did get to the point that they could run cars on track, they never got to the point where they could run those cars in competition. It seems to be defunct, having been renamed "Arrival R" after the core technologies were purchased by one of the teams that had intended to enter the series.[2] 0: https://roborace.com https://roborace.com 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborace 2: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-tech%2C-development-and-manufacturing/arrival-writes-roborace-autonomous-racing https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-tech%2C-developm...

cdkmoose 4y ago

F1 drivers do the same thing through a chicane or wide on a curve to maintain speed, leaving the smoothest road surface for that advantage (not the skidding).

t0mas88 4y ago
That's about taking a different line. Drivers will start as far out on the kerb as possible to make the overall turn less tight, allowing them to take that turn at a higher speed. What this AI was doing is something that only works in sim-racing. It's done by humans sometimes in iRacing. Drop a wheel on the grass to make use of the fact that the sim will cause a consistent rotation (yaw) from it. Which can help turn a car into a corner. It can't be done in reality, because the effect on the car isn't predictable on a real race track.
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  > It can't be done in reality, because the effect on the car isn't predictable on a real race track. Maybe a driver could work it out in training for a single race and in a certain corner but the cost of getting it wrong is not only not finishing the race but also having a race car in the barrier, so a damaged car. On a race track, drivers usually know characteristics of every corner for selected weather conditions. For example: at the Nordschleife, exit of Foxhole into Adenauer Forst is safe to cut in the dry but a no no in the wet, unless you’re in a GT3 class car with enough downforce. It is the same with kerbs, stay out of then when it is wet, use them in the dry. But it’s all touch and go when the conditions change and sometimes that leads to a crash.
- MikeBVaughn 4y ago
  The modeling in iRacing is really striking in that way. It's good enough in practice that driving in the sim is extremely convincing, which makes the odd methods of exploiting the physics model that much more striking. I saw a video a few months ago of people running an endurance race in iRacing, and they'd consistently drop their left-side (IIRC, it could have been right) tires off the track on a specific straightaway. My understanding is that a) they didn't lose that much speed, b) because of the reasons stated previously, it's fairly safe in the sim, and c) it kept the front left tire temperatures closer to the optimum for the full duration of the lap. Thinking on it, one of the things I found cool was that, in a way, it's not entirely unlike what real drivers will do with wet-weather tires, where they sacrifice the best line to hunt for wetter stretches.