4 ms·

> Maybe germans have some fucking great plan because in 10 years they won't sell many cars here. They are trying to build cars there. Germany's trade surplus a

> Maybe germans have some fucking great plan because in 10 years they won't sell many cars here. They are trying to build cars there. Germany's trade surplus also leads to German companies investing more money abroad than at home. Also, what is Germany supposed to do? What are they doing wrong? EZB is not controlled by Germany, Germany in fact always complained about the low interest rates.

RobertoG 4y ago
What Germany could have done is to accept a change in the treaties for a real fiscal capacity at the European level. But, instead of that, Germany preferred to enjoy access to a common market and devaluated Mark (that is basically what the Euro is) while pontificating from a high horse. Instead of a functional monetary union we get this mess. And now we all have to be solidary with Germany energy problems. We will see.
- petre 4y ago
  > And now we all have to be solidary with Germany energy problems I this it's still better than Germany importing Russian gas. Their whole decarbonization strategy was based on Russian gas. This is how we ended up with gas labelled as "green". If you don't like'em, don't buy German cars, buy Seat. Technically also a German car built in Spain. At least you keep the factory workers employed.
  - RobertoG 4y ago
    That's your proposed solution? I shouldn't drive a BMW? I think I will aim for a political solution if you don't mind. There are two possibilities, a functional monetary union and a really democratic union or every country goes its way. Both work for me.
    - petre 4y ago
      Yeah, that's one way to put pressure on Germany in order to obtain a political solution. If you go to Greece, almost every food product is labelled with ελληνικό προϊόν = greek product, because they do not buy food from Lidl or German beer. Cars? They usually buy Toyotas, French cars (PSA) or Italian FCA.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- turbinerneiter 4y ago
  > What Germany could have done is to accept a change in the treaties for a real fiscal capacity at the European level. Can you elaborate on that? What are the ideas that Germany opposed? A lot of this reads like Germany is the boogie man and every other European country is their poor victim. That's a little bit to one-sided for me.
  - RobertoG 4y ago
    It's not about boogie men, it's about economic realities. Very different countries can't be in a functional monetary and banking union without a common fiscal capacity. In terms of the USA it would be like there was a Fed without a treasure. Or another way to see it, it's like the countries in the Euro use a foreign currency that they don't control. If you are interested I recommend this prescient article by Wynne Godley (1). So, if the design of the Euro is bad, why don't change it? Because for some countries is very advantageous. Germany being the best example, they are an export powerhouse that now have unrestricted access to the common market and, because is a common currency, it will no appreciate or devaluate following the commercial balance. Of course, this is sell like they don't want to finance the lazy pigs in the south. (1) - https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v14/n19/wynne-godley/maastricht-and-all-that https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v14/n19/wynne-godley/maastri...
    - turbinerneiter 4y ago
      And Germany is stopping the EU from further integration? If we do this fiscal union, are all countries willing to adopt German fiscal discipline? Are all countries ok with levelling out retirement age? Social benefits? Also, why are you not mentioning that Germany already agreed to the EU taking on common debt during the corona crisis? That the new government is very much pro further integration? I hear a lot about what Germany is doing wrong. What are the others doing wrong? Germany was desolat themselves after the reunification, they were called the sick man of Europe. They then did harsh and brutal labour market reforms, and a bunch of luck probably as well. Now they are an economic powerhouse. With 0 natural resources, they are all imported. It's not the Germans fault that Italy has loads of debt. It's not the Germans fault that Spain built useless ghosttowns in the middle of nowhere. They can only export what others are willing to import. And they are not exactly exporting cheap cars at dumping prices, are they? Sure, Germany is far from perfect and they do lots of things in their own self interest. But maybe the other countries can also try to do better? How long did the Italians keep Berlusconi in power? Draghi threw the towel today, again, because the parties in parliament are unwilling to cooperate to better Italy. Maybe try to copy what Germany is doing well, instead of feeling like a victim of German evilness.
origin_path 4y ago
Germany's former trade surplus: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/balance-of-trade https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/balance-of-trade

RobertoG 4y ago

What Germany could have done is to accept a change in the treaties for a real fiscal capacity at the European level. But, instead of that, Germany preferred to enjoy access to a common market and devaluated Mark (that is basically what the Euro is) while pontificating from a high horse. Instead of a functional monetary union we get this mess. And now we all have to be solidary with Germany energy problems. We will see.

petre 4y ago
> And now we all have to be solidary with Germany energy problems I this it's still better than Germany importing Russian gas. Their whole decarbonization strategy was based on Russian gas. This is how we ended up with gas labelled as "green". If you don't like'em, don't buy German cars, buy Seat. Technically also a German car built in Spain. At least you keep the factory workers employed.
- RobertoG 4y ago
  That's your proposed solution? I shouldn't drive a BMW? I think I will aim for a political solution if you don't mind. There are two possibilities, a functional monetary union and a really democratic union or every country goes its way. Both work for me.
  - petre 4y ago
    Yeah, that's one way to put pressure on Germany in order to obtain a political solution. If you go to Greece, almost every food product is labelled with ελληνικό προϊόν = greek product, because they do not buy food from Lidl or German beer. Cars? They usually buy Toyotas, French cars (PSA) or Italian FCA.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
turbinerneiter 4y ago
> What Germany could have done is to accept a change in the treaties for a real fiscal capacity at the European level. Can you elaborate on that? What are the ideas that Germany opposed? A lot of this reads like Germany is the boogie man and every other European country is their poor victim. That's a little bit to one-sided for me.
- RobertoG 4y ago
  It's not about boogie men, it's about economic realities. Very different countries can't be in a functional monetary and banking union without a common fiscal capacity. In terms of the USA it would be like there was a Fed without a treasure. Or another way to see it, it's like the countries in the Euro use a foreign currency that they don't control. If you are interested I recommend this prescient article by Wynne Godley (1). So, if the design of the Euro is bad, why don't change it? Because for some countries is very advantageous. Germany being the best example, they are an export powerhouse that now have unrestricted access to the common market and, because is a common currency, it will no appreciate or devaluate following the commercial balance. Of course, this is sell like they don't want to finance the lazy pigs in the south. (1) - https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v14/n19/wynne-godley/maastricht-and-all-that https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v14/n19/wynne-godley/maastri...
  - turbinerneiter 4y ago
    And Germany is stopping the EU from further integration? If we do this fiscal union, are all countries willing to adopt German fiscal discipline? Are all countries ok with levelling out retirement age? Social benefits? Also, why are you not mentioning that Germany already agreed to the EU taking on common debt during the corona crisis? That the new government is very much pro further integration? I hear a lot about what Germany is doing wrong. What are the others doing wrong? Germany was desolat themselves after the reunification, they were called the sick man of Europe. They then did harsh and brutal labour market reforms, and a bunch of luck probably as well. Now they are an economic powerhouse. With 0 natural resources, they are all imported. It's not the Germans fault that Italy has loads of debt. It's not the Germans fault that Spain built useless ghosttowns in the middle of nowhere. They can only export what others are willing to import. And they are not exactly exporting cheap cars at dumping prices, are they? Sure, Germany is far from perfect and they do lots of things in their own self interest. But maybe the other countries can also try to do better? How long did the Italians keep Berlusconi in power? Draghi threw the towel today, again, because the parties in parliament are unwilling to cooperate to better Italy. Maybe try to copy what Germany is doing well, instead of feeling like a victim of German evilness.

origin_path 4y ago

Germany's former trade surplus: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/balance-of-trade https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/balance-of-trade